The Artistic Journey of Ibimina Dominique Thompson
In this episode of Odejuma, Harry chats with multi-hyphenate artist Ibimina Dominique Thompson about art, identity, and resilience. Ibimina takes us through her journey as a Black trans woman in the arts, starting from her early days in church plays and culminating in her powerful performances on major stages. She reflects on the challenges of transitioning in the theater world, the weight of societal expectations, and the power of self-acceptance.
Ibimina also opens up about her acclaimed projects Bad Africans and Love is Like, her vision for creating spaces where Black trans narratives can thrive, and the lessons she’s learned about love, growth, and representation along the way.
Follow Ibimina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bardestafrican/
For more information on Harry, visit: Harry Itie
Transcript
Hi, my name is Harry, and welcome to Odejuma.
Speaker A:Odejuma recognizes the magic of storytelling.
Speaker A:From personal experiences to stories of adventure, from tales of resilience to finding joy in the simple things.
Speaker A:This story seeks to inspire, entertain, and educate because there is power in the stories of everyday people, and these stories are worth telling.
Speaker A:Hey, y'.
Speaker A:All.
Speaker A:Welcome to another episode of Odejuma.
Speaker A:I'm super excited to be back, and I'm talking with someone I really, really love.
Speaker A:I'm here with Ibimina, Dominic Thompson.
Speaker A:Hi, Bimina, how are you?
Speaker B:I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker B:What's up?
Speaker B:What's up?
Speaker B:What's up?
Speaker B:It's an honor to be here.
Speaker B:I like the podcast a lot, and I care about Harry a lot.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:I'm here with Ibimina, my Niger Delta sister.
Speaker A:Aren't you my Nigel Delta sister?
Speaker A:That was very shady.
Speaker B:I am Reverse Babes.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Are we.
Speaker A:Are we separated?
Speaker A:I thought we're one family.
Speaker A:I thought we're one family.
Speaker B:Are you not part.
Speaker B:Do you know what to be part of?
Speaker B:River State's Babes to the Front?
Speaker A:Not very.
Speaker A:I want to be.
Speaker A:I like my whatchamacault.
Speaker A:I like my Delta State.
Speaker B:I think that is where y' all bring out a lot of characters in this world.
Speaker B:The man from Delta 6 will drive you insane.
Speaker A:But also, I am screaming.
Speaker A:I am screaming.
Speaker A:I can either confirm nor deny, but I'm here to talk to.
Speaker A:But I'm super excited to be, you know, talking with you because I'm just very, you know, I feel very proud of you when I see your work that spans from all forms of art forms from film to theater.
Speaker A:You are now even DJing how, like, you're doing everything.
Speaker A:So I'm just very curious and excited to just go into this conversation because I don't think we've spoken in depth about your journey as a creative.
Speaker A:So can you just talk a little bit about Ibimina?
Speaker A:Where did this love for the arts come from for Ibimina?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, gosh, I feel like every black child, no matter where you're from in the diaspora, it starts in church, which is ironic.
Speaker B:Like, the nature of what my work gives.
Speaker B:My mom was a Sunday school teacher and my grandmother was, like, part of, like, Sunday schools.
Speaker B:My dad was, like, in his corners.
Speaker B:And I remember as a child, like, when we would do church plays, like, I would always love, like, doing it right.
Speaker B:So Parable of the Sower is, like, my earliest memory of, like, my first.
Speaker B:First Play.
Speaker B:Or when they were like, oh, doing the birth of Jesus and, like, being like three wise men.
Speaker B:Like, that was like, bend the butt.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, my God, I love this.
Speaker B: d so then, like, you know, in: Speaker B:And I remember I went to Montford Academy.
Speaker B:That was my high school.
Speaker B:And I was in this class called children's theater.
Speaker B:So at first I hated the class because I was like, my friend.
Speaker B:I'm not a child.
Speaker B:Like, I'm literally 13 going on 14.
Speaker B:Why am I in children's theater?
Speaker B:I should be in biology, you know, because, like, I think every African family tells you to do stem.
Speaker B:And I was, like, very, like, STEM minded at the time.
Speaker B:I still, like, have a passion for, like, science and tech, but that's a different conversation.
Speaker B:And so I signed up for this.
Speaker B:I'm going to the class, and it turns out we're putting on this musical for, like, the elementary middle schoolers at our school.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, okay, maybe this is kind of fun.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:Like, it's my first.
Speaker B:This is my first time, like, in an American high school.
Speaker B:I'm 13 going on 14.
Speaker B:It's the heap of a bola, all that.
Speaker B:And so I do the class and we get to the performance, and I'm, like, actually enjoying our rehearsals.
Speaker B:Enjoying the rehearsals.
Speaker B:And the person who was playing the lead role got in school suspension.
Speaker B:And I was like, well, I don't want to be the paper boy anymore.
Speaker B:So I went to the theater teacher and I was like, hey, do you still need someone to play Dandy Dan?
Speaker B:Because, like, I would happily step in for Miss America if she cannot fulfill her duties.
Speaker B:And then he was like, of course.
Speaker B:And so this is in Florida, mind you, in Florida.
Speaker B:One thing a lot of people don't know is Florida has a very, very competitive, like, arts scene, especially in high school.
Speaker B:Like, you compete for, like, theater competitions, match plays, musicals.
Speaker B:Like, it's a whole thing from, like, local to state to, like, you could go to nationals if your school chooses to do it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I remember even in boarding, because I was also at a boarding school and, like, in theater, like, my early days in high school, then the first musical I did when it was a mainstage and not a class was Beauty and the Beast.
Speaker B:And the story of how I got into Beauty and the Beast was that, like, I was on my way to junior varsity basketball practice and I ran into somebody on the second day of tryouts.
Speaker B:And so I found out Beauty and the Beast auditions was the same day as the last day of like JV tryouts because my school is a huge basketball school.
Speaker B:And so instead of going to basketball, I went to Beauty and the Beast auditions and like skipped my swimming thing.
Speaker B:And then I changed my after school PE credit and I was doing that.
Speaker B:And theater was a little hard because I felt like I didn't fit in with a lot of kids for a bit, but like, I still made some friends.
Speaker B:And then there was this regional awards show called the Dr. Phillips Applause Awards.
Speaker B:Dr. Phillips Applause Awards.
Speaker B:And I'd been doing ensemble roles in school.
Speaker B:And I won my first applause award for honorable mention as an ensemble member in who was in Beauty and the Beast.
Speaker B:And I remember I was the baker and the spoon person in Fork.
Speaker B:Then I also went and did like, you know, Barnum and all these other musicals in school.
Speaker B:Like, I was always like ensemble supporting to like my senior year where I played like one lead role.
Speaker B:It was Benny in the Heights and Sebastian in Little Mermaid.
Speaker B:But again, like, those felt like a little bit of like lead supporting roles.
Speaker B:I don't know if they're really leads, but like, hey, shout out to the musical theater girlies.
Speaker B:I'm not going to cover yalls like bag.
Speaker B:And then by like my junior year, we got a new theater director and she was a black woman.
Speaker B:Her name was Roberta Emerson.
Speaker B:And she was like in her process of starting a fine arts conservatory.
Speaker B:Because also a thing like people don't know about me is like, before I got into like acting, like for training, I actually was training to be an opera singer in my high school.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:My school had a fine arts conservatory.
Speaker B:And the first time I auditioned for the music conservatory, I did not get in because I went and sang great as Faithfulness.
Speaker B:I don't Nigeria opera style.
Speaker B:I don't know what I was getting into, but I was like, you know what, honey, I'm living.
Speaker B:I'm eating it.
Speaker B:And then I didn't get it.
Speaker B:And so then I tried going again for like, you know, the other choir, the higher choir, because I was in concert choir.
Speaker B:Then they were like, okay, select choir.
Speaker B:And also like, again, like, I hadn't been trained in like singing, like, train trained.
Speaker B:I was just like, let me just go where I can sing because I just like singing.
Speaker B:It was hard.
Speaker B:Parents weren't here.
Speaker B:Like, I was sticking out in school.
Speaker B:All the Africans were like, in sports.
Speaker B:So for me personally, I was like, well, I want to still perform moral of the story is, we keep going.
Speaker B:And then my.
Speaker B:My choir teacher put me in contact with a private voice teacher my sophomore year.
Speaker B:And that's when I also started competing in vocal in the vocal, like, solo and ensemble world in America and, like, just traveling.
Speaker B:Because also I had learned that, like, oh, instead of doing sports, like, I could use this to get into college.
Speaker B:So at the time, I wasn't like, this would be my major.
Speaker B:This is just something I'll use to get into college so I could study being a doctor, all that.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Then by junior year, when we got Roberta, she had changed the conservatory to.
Speaker B:To, like, it being.
Speaker B:We had a theater one.
Speaker B:And so it was either musical theater acting, or you did full vocal performance with the classical music side.
Speaker B:And we would be in school till like, 4:00pm, then go to rehearsal till, like, 6, 7, 8:00pm at night.
Speaker B: n back in our doors by, like,: Speaker B:Like, it was rigorous.
Speaker B:And mind you, I was the class president of my senior year at this time.
Speaker B:But junior year, I joined our musical theater acting conservatory.
Speaker B:My senior year, I wrote my first play, which was called Talking to God.
Speaker B:And it was like my senior capstone.
Speaker B:And it was about basically a person who was struggling.
Speaker B:It was about sexual abuse in, like, the church because I dealt with, like, similar things in, like, school, Nigeria.
Speaker B:And then also I had auditioned for a bunch of schools.
Speaker B:I'm sorry about that.
Speaker B:Oh, it's okay.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I appreciate that.
Speaker B:I'd auditioned for, like, a bunch of schools.
Speaker B:I auditioned for 10 schools, actually.
Speaker B:My mom came with me to unified auditions in New York because for those who don't know if you're gonna go, like, the full BFA acting route.
Speaker B:Yeah, honey, I know.
Speaker B:Full BFA acting world.
Speaker B:Like, you.
Speaker B:You go to unified auditions, you're going from school to school to school.
Speaker B:You're probably dropping into a school here, going there.
Speaker B:Like, I was on the pathway to, like, drama school.
Speaker B:One of the funniest stories I even have from those auditions is I was supposed to audition for Juilliard my senior year of high school for their acting program.
Speaker B:But then I was like, I have Rutgers at the same time.
Speaker B:And Rutgers had a good, like, you know, university had a great stem, like, finance.
Speaker B:I was like, I might have to cancel my Juilliard audition.
Speaker B:So I canceled my Juilliard audition the day and went to go audition for Rutgers instead.
Speaker B:But, like, my mom came with me to my college auditions.
Speaker B:And I remember even when we were there, it was.
Speaker B:It was like a big mind fuck.
Speaker B:Because, like, I realized I was the only international student auditioning for these schools.
Speaker B:And, like, other kids could ask their things about the dance program and other things, but I'd be like, so what's your experience with international students?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, or do y' all have students from around the world?
Speaker B:It was the first time where I was starting to pick up on the fact that, like, I always knew I was different in America, but, like, unified Auditions was, like, even in this place that is inclusionary, I feel very singular in my experience.
Speaker B:And after auditions, I got into, like, five schools.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was hell bent on going to New York instead, but my teacher was like, I don't think you should go to New York.
Speaker B:Then I got waitlisted for another school, SUNY Purchase, and it was between either, you know, University of Minnesota, SUNY purchased Roosevelt Chicago Performing Arts at Chicago, and Pace University for musical theater.
Speaker B:And then there was a school in Florida called UCF that I had gotten accepted to on the spot.
Speaker B:So I was like, okay, I know I don't want to stay in Florida because of the politics, but, like, I also know I love to live in New York because I dreamed of being there and ended up picking U of M because I thought it would make sense for my family and also was like, it would just make sense, like, in case.
Speaker B:Because also, I was on the mindset of, like, if I drop out of acting, like, I want to go be able to study, like, pre med, you know, or pre law.
Speaker B:At the time, I was considering global major studies, and so I got into U of M. And so we're happy.
Speaker B:By my freshman year, I had.
Speaker B: company members from class of: Speaker B:It was definitely hard because, like, we did not have a typical BFA acting experience.
Speaker B:I auditioned for my first professional play called How It's Gonna Be, which is written by Jacoby Johnson and H. Adam Harris.
Speaker B:Because I was crewing a show called Seven Guitars, and my friend Etaranya saw the audition and pulled me to the side and was like, you should audition for this.
Speaker B:And I was like, well, I'm in school, and we're not allowed to work our freshman year because they want you to focus on school.
Speaker B:And I was also like, well, I can't do that.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not the person for this.
Speaker B:Like, I just.
Speaker B:I don't know why I would be the one to audition.
Speaker B:I'm scared as Hell, I go to this audition, panicking, nervous, and I get a call back because also I was like, I don't know who I was going to read for.
Speaker B:This is the first.
Speaker B:The first play I actually did in Minneapolis was a world premiere.
Speaker B:Now it's, like, gone on to play in other places.
Speaker B:Jacoby's living.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:But I audition, I get the callback, I go to callbacks, then I book the show.
Speaker B:And from how it's going to be, it was like a lot of, like, different interests from different Twin Cities theaters.
Speaker B:Like, oh, wait, weren't you that, like.
Speaker B:Like, you know, all that go back to sophomore year?
Speaker B:Sophomore year, I'm just chilling.
Speaker B:I auditioned for a musical called 12 Angry Men.
Speaker B:The musical at the end of my sophomore year, thinking nothing of it, but then I had, like, an algebra final that I couldn't get out of.
Speaker B:So I was like, hey, I might have a final this day.
Speaker B:Like, is it okay?
Speaker B:But then we also went into the pandemic.
Speaker B:And then the pandemic, like, you know, a lot of theater for the time being.
Speaker B:And then during the pandemic was when I then started writing in college more.
Speaker B:So I wrote Nigeria's Life, which is.
Speaker B:Was a response to nsars and police brutality and, like, raised some funds for, like, my program and for a friend of mine who had passed away.
Speaker B:So I donated the money to his family to, like, you know, donate the scholarship and whatever.
Speaker B:Do Night Jaz alive.
Speaker B:I raised some money for NSARS relief.
Speaker B:Like $300, send it back home.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay.
Speaker B:I like this writing thing.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's pretty much a vibe.
Speaker B:Junior year comes around, summer of junior year in 12 Angry Men, the musical.
Speaker B:I'm doing it.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:I did a Shakespeare apprenticeship in Winona where I played Juliet's mom and then Juliet because we did an episodic version of Romeo and Juliet.
Speaker B:Then from Great River, I had done 12 Angry man, the Musical, like, around my junior year, senior year, because I also had to stay an extra semester.
Speaker B:But then, like, I took a break from school to transition.
Speaker B:Junior year rolls around, break into musical theater for the first time here in Minneapolis.
Speaker B:I've done musical theater and artistry as well and, like, different places in the city, like, pre.
Speaker B:This soft.
Speaker B:Pre transition, mind you.
Speaker B:So in all these places, like, a thing that was recurring for me in, like, undergrad was I was going to school doing, like.
Speaker B:That's why I also ran into ballroom by, like, my junior senior year.
Speaker B:And then also from ballroom Whenever I wouldn't be at a ball, I would then be also going to rehearsal to paint the picture a full time student doing all this.
Speaker B:And it was way too much.
Speaker B: And then by like: Speaker B:Then when I filed Asylum, that was when like, I like stopped doing things professionally because, you know, you can't work for 150 days.
Speaker B:And I was like, well, I still need to fundraise for my life and also to pay off my lawyer fees.
Speaker B:So I did a fundraiser where I performed my solo show Bad Africans.
Speaker B:And I had to be oh shame artists in fucked up world.
Speaker B:And also like, I think that was like my foray of like, I don't know if I want to exists in many of these like white centered Twin cities theater spaces because I was working in a lot of rooms where I was the only like person, like not only the only like person of color, but for me especially was like, I'm the only black person here.
Speaker B:Like when I look across the table, when I look like just the behind the scenes team, I'm not seeing black people there.
Speaker B:Like, I'm like, okay, show the cast.
Speaker B:Okay, we all audition.
Speaker B:I got picked up.
Speaker B:Cool, whatever.
Speaker B:But then I'm like, I'm looking across the table and I can't even find like a black costume designer right now.
Speaker B:Here there's not even like a black woman who want me touching my hair.
Speaker B:Like, and for me it was odd because in Nigeria I was just surrounded by like blackness as norm and also as excellence too.
Speaker B:And that was on a, on a project.
Speaker B:I was actually doing my Guthrie debut where I was like, oh my God, like, I don't know if I want to really be as tokenized in the.
Speaker A:That was a good, that was a good Guthrie debut, by the way.
Speaker A:If I can, if I can add, I think that you were, and that was in Little Prince and I think you were a fantast stick on, you know, in that play.
Speaker A:So I just want to give you your flowers there.
Speaker A:I have a little bit of curiosity around.
Speaker A:I know you had talked about your childhood a little bit, but also just wanted to just talk about how you've, you've thought, you've shown, you've described your trajectory professionally and talking, I, I, and what, what is hitting me is the fact that like you've done a lot in your, you know, but also realizing that, okay, this is a very white centered industry and maybe I need, I need to take a break from that.
Speaker A:But it's something that you love and you do so well, how are you navigating that piece, having to not be in the mainstream theater space after having, like, for example, like I said, such a great debut at the Garthy Theater in Minneapolis?
Speaker B:I think with, like, mainstream theater space, it's, like, two things of.
Speaker B:There's, like.
Speaker B:That's a very good question.
Speaker B:This is a good question.
Speaker B:I would not be opposed too much from, like, doing shows at, like, some mainstream theaters.
Speaker B:I think it's like, there's so.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's two things.
Speaker B:One, like, I'm thinking of, like, the best way to voice all this at the same time.
Speaker B:One, like, some just weren't paying enough, like, for the amount of stress and trauma you go through.
Speaker B:I was just like, I'm gonna go corporate because, frankly, I don't think y' all are paying the dolls enough.
Speaker B:And we'll talk about protecting the dolls of painting dolls another time.
Speaker B:And two, I would be interested in still auditioning for, like, mainstream, like, theaters and, like, what plays they're doing.
Speaker B:I think the question I have for mainstream theaters is like, are you, like, ready to question, like, how you put trans women on stage?
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it's not lost on me, like, that I did so many things.
Speaker B:I think I'm still processing the fact that I've done so many things on my resume.
Speaker B:And I think that, like, when I go into these rooms, like, I don't have the expectation of there will be dolls there, to be honest.
Speaker B:It's more so I'm like, I have a different view of it now where it's like, oh, I'm the only one here.
Speaker B:And while this is supposed to be uplifting or create a new avenue, it is very depressing, frankly.
Speaker B:And also, like, again, like, I would be open to doing stuff with mainstream theaters.
Speaker B:I also would love to, like, do stuff in New York, to be honest.
Speaker B:Like, I have a goal to, like, move there before, like, I turn 30 or Chicago at least, like, audition there and, you know, get back on, like, doing plays mostly just because, like, the concept of musical theater and, like, vocal feminization is something that, like, I'm personally, like, I love to sing, but, like, I don't know if I want to sing in this musical in that way.
Speaker B:And also, I've dive.
Speaker B:I've moved my energy to just kind of, like, trying to self produce and submit for grants and festivals, like, acting wise and just building the worlds I want to see.
Speaker B:Because I just felt like, especially one thing Asylum had inspired me with, and, like, that's why I Built bad Africans and written love is like, was that.
Speaker B:Like, I got tired of wishing for these rooms to exist and waiting for these scenes to catch up.
Speaker B:And I was just like, well, I want a world that looks like this, so I'm going to get it.
Speaker B:I don't know how I'll do my best and what I think is my best at the time, but I'm going to get it.
Speaker B:You know, like, literally, through different projects, introductions, I was, like, meeting people, and I was like, okay.
Speaker B:Like, this world is coming about, like, in its own forms.
Speaker B:And, like, it's still challenging.
Speaker B:It still, like, hurts sometimes.
Speaker B:Because, like, also for trans women, like, even for, like, roles that we get called in for, like, I know that I'm not gonna get called in for Little women, right?
Speaker B:Like, I would love to do Little Women.
Speaker B:I would love to play Joan or, like, Amy and Little Women.
Speaker B:But, like, it's the thing of, like, these institutions still do not see me as a woman, if that makes sense, and still have that complex bias within them that they're still learning and unearthing.
Speaker B:Because I noticed that with, like, white trans women, they can be feminine.
Speaker B:But, like, when you transition, you know, you're still transitioning under this standard for black women that, like, you're going from a world that you didn't know to life now entering it, like, full force.
Speaker B:So, like, yeah, like, I even had somebody ask me if I would be comfortable playing a man.
Speaker B:Like, it's not like it was a cast playing, like, doing the show.
Speaker B:No, they were like, would you be comfortable still, like, reading for a gay male, like, role after they knew I was transitioning?
Speaker B:So I'm like, if I'm getting those questions from the actors who might be trying to make work, and, like, these aren't white actors, Mindy.
Speaker B:Like, and then I, like, what.
Speaker B:What can I expect from the institutions?
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, how am I supposed to feel safe?
Speaker B:Because even when we step outside of, like, the big thing of, okay, there's trans women, like, working in behind the scenes here and there.
Speaker B:And, like, to my knowledge, I can name, like, three dolls who have transitioned, like, medically and are working in the scene.
Speaker B:Like, the person who wrote and directed Close to Home, Sharifa Yasmin.
Speaker B:There's an amazing makeup and hair designer who's also making a Naked Stage debut.
Speaker B:B.
Speaker B:And then I would say me.
Speaker B:Those are, like, three I can name, like, medically transitioned and, like, still doing things in the mainstream theater space.
Speaker B:And yet, like, when I look at that, and then on top of it, then analyzing how many women are in this.
Speaker B:And then you're also looking at the statistics, because my father was in finance.
Speaker B:Like, my.
Speaker B:Even my other gay dad is in finance.
Speaker B:My other gay father, Aries, has an mba.
Speaker B:Shout out to Donna, Aries, I love y'.
Speaker B:All.
Speaker B:But, like, it's the literal mathematics of it.
Speaker B:I think the math of life has always made sense to me because, like, in a world full of chaos and, like, fear kind of have to.
Speaker B:I lean on, like, numbers.
Speaker B:Sometimes the numbers are actually scary because also, there's not that many black girls being cast, right?
Speaker B:So then you're.
Speaker B:You're looking at, like, black CIS women not being cast in as many, like, leading roles.
Speaker B:And then out of that, you're also looking at the context of, like, a.
Speaker B:Who are the favorites?
Speaker B:Who are those who've played the game that the institutions have tokenized, to be quite honest with you.
Speaker B:And how are they still, like, going back and feeling, like, sane, to be honest?
Speaker B:And so when you look at that world, and also for me personally, as a black trans girl, like, I love having autonomy over my hair in the industry.
Speaker B:That is something that isn't as common.
Speaker B:And so, like, even my approach to how I view natural hair on stage, like, or partake in different roles, like, that plays a factor for me.
Speaker B:And sometimes, like, a lot of places would not be ready to, like, spend as much time having conversations.
Speaker B:And I was even blessed that with, like, close to home, the hair conversation.
Speaker B:I was like, that was directed by a trans woman.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:And so, yeah, to sum it all up, mainstream theater is something I would be interested in.
Speaker B:It's just more so, like, trying to navigate, like, is this something that I want to be if I have to be half of myself or if I have to, like, move away from that because I even working in corporate world, like, because I work in hospitality for a hotel, shout out to my hotel and my job, definitely a thing of, like, I can go into work and be my full self.
Speaker B:And, like, it's another part of my brain that I have to turn on to, like, protect myself.
Speaker B:And, like, when I do theater, like, I guess because I did not see it as much of a corporate entity slash corporation.
Speaker B:But it's still a job, right?
Speaker B:You still take it seriously.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I had a lot more to learn and catch up with of, like, being in a creative space, taking it seriously.
Speaker B:But then also, like, what is that way to show up professionally, right?
Speaker B:What does that word mean?
Speaker B:And what does it mean to see, like, the standard Shift in front of you in real time of other folks can do this, but, like, I still have to be, like, every day the best here, you know, so in ways I've made that.
Speaker A:Like, would you say that.
Speaker A:Would you say that that was a reason why you transition?
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Did you want to transition a little bit early on?
Speaker A:Was that.
Speaker A:Did that make you take a pause just figuring out all these challenges in the industry, or was that an encouraging factor for you to transition?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Well, because I know you talked about early on working pre transition and working after you transition, or, you know, it's still a journey, but the.
Speaker A:The before and now, how would you say that?
Speaker A:What was the catalyst for either doing it, either doing it, like, sooner.
Speaker A:Did working professionally in the theater space or in the art space have anything to do with that process?
Speaker B:Yeah, if I was gonna.
Speaker B:If I'm being honest.
Speaker B:Cause, like, this is the Odejima podcast where we can be 100 honest.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It hindered my transition for a while, actually.
Speaker B:I actually had thought, because I started out, like, transitions just being non binary, and I was like, you know, enjoying, like, you met me, when I was even more envy, like, little prince days, I was just an envy, running around, like, you know, my little skirt, having my little facial hair.
Speaker B:Like, some days I have a good tea, some days people would see me bald, and I was like, God, this.
Speaker B:This little child has so much going on there.
Speaker B:I think that I had definitely slowed my transition because I was like.
Speaker B:I kept getting cast as, like, black men, which was exciting.
Speaker B:And also the hard part for me, like, playing black men was I was like, okay, I'm playing black men, but this isn't how I see black men.
Speaker B:This is how y' all see black men.
Speaker B:And a lot of the black male.
Speaker B:Male characters were either always very strong or very, very angry men, or, like, there was a.
Speaker B:There was an absence of heart and humanity in all the things that these men were going through.
Speaker B:And so, like, for a while, like, I was.
Speaker B:And also, I had a lot of teachers who were telling me, you'd be a great leading man.
Speaker B:You'd be a great leading man.
Speaker B:And when I would try, like, leading lady roles in college or even monologues, because I had a teacher, I went up to him and I was like, I want to do Calpurnia and Julius Caesar.
Speaker B:And he was like, okay, fine.
Speaker B:Like, let's try Calpurnia and Julius Caesar.
Speaker B:Like, there were little.
Speaker B:Little moments where I was like, okay, like, the women of Shakespeare definitely Are like somebody that I like, were definitely catalysts as well that were like, helping me push away from, like, I don't want to be perceived as a man on stage anymore and I also don't want to play men, right?
Speaker B:But I was like, no, like, I, I'm pretty sure, like, this is a good thing, this is the right thing.
Speaker B:Like, I had a different ball getting in my head.
Speaker B:I was trying to be Simba and Lion King while enjoying Nala's songs.
Speaker B:You know, I was on a different mental trajectory.
Speaker B:And like, I think also we should talk about like transitioning as safety because at least for me, when I was non binary in many ways, like, I think ballroom was my biggest, like, theatrical catalyst for transitioning.
Speaker B:But the nature of the industry itself, like, taught me, like, practicing cis, like being perceived as a CIS man's like, privilege in the world and like, still gave me like, and like a spot to like, be able to like, still be my non binary self, right?
Speaker B:But I was like, oh, I would always joke and be like, oh, this is like drag for me because I'm going to go play a like CIS straight man or like a CIS gay man, but I'm not a man.
Speaker B:You know, Eventually I was like, okay, this kind of drag is actually getting tiring on my spirit.
Speaker B:And ballroom was really what was the catalyst that was the real, like, because it's a culture, right?
Speaker B:And like, it's a movement, it's a lifestyle.
Speaker B:And within that culture I learned like a new sense of theatricality.
Speaker B:And that like, pushed me to be like, no, I could be a black trans woman and could be fine in this space, in this industry.
Speaker B:Cause I also saw other black trans women doing it, like Naomi Stewart, who was here for my show at the Wiseman.
Speaker B:And we had our talk back.
Speaker B:Like, Naomi was really somebody.
Speaker B:I was like, if she's doing it and she's doing the plays, playing Beneatha Lady Ann, working behind the table, then okay, why not?
Speaker B:I should be able to do it.
Speaker B:And I also saw so many dolls, like, living their lives.
Speaker B:Like my sister Maame, who was, who's a really amazing, like, political organizer and founder of Believe what's Possible.
Speaker B:Or like my other sister Scarlett, who was going to school for fashion, right?
Speaker B:It was still hard.
Speaker B:Like, you can never like, shake that thing of like, I'm the only trans woman here, let alone the only trans woman of color, like, visibly here in this room.
Speaker B:And yeah, like, theater, theater in many ways, like, stopped me from transitioning because every time I would think about doing it and also Being in a Nigerian home, too, as well, because I.
Speaker B:Cause I can't just be like, it's the industry.
Speaker B:Like, my family was a huge, like, you know, catalyst and also blockade at the same moment.
Speaker B:Because they're like, well, what about your career?
Speaker B:What about, like, these.
Speaker B:These men that you want to play?
Speaker B:Like, you're looking at Troy and Fences, Corey, like, all these different, like, male love interests that, like, which.
Speaker B:The funny thing was, I would never get cast as young men, mind you.
Speaker B:I would get cast as old men a lot of the time, or, like.
Speaker B:And that were larger than life.
Speaker B:I was being.
Speaker B:I was being cast, like, way older.
Speaker B:Also.
Speaker B:For future.
Speaker B:For everyone hearing this, the proper terminology is cast, not casted.
Speaker B:I don't want to sound like an annoying person here, but.
Speaker B:But we're back.
Speaker A:Shout out to the.
Speaker A:Shout out to the theater education.
Speaker A:We're here for.
Speaker B:Like, I had a. I had a teacher who drilled that.
Speaker B:So she's like, if I hear you say you were casted, I will lose it.
Speaker B:And I was like, shout out, Roberta.
Speaker B:Because I still say cast, but, like, I wasn't playing these young, shopping, leading men.
Speaker B:I was playing, like, I remember auditioning for Hunchback, and I was playing Quasimodo's father, and this man is, like, 10 years older than me or, like, even Little Prince.
Speaker A:Quasimodo's father is wild.
Speaker B:Like, Little Prince.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I'm a dancer.
Speaker B:And, like, I was playing the lamplighter who was the oldest person there.
Speaker B:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And, like, there was just so many shows where I just was like.
Speaker B:Or, like, Great Expectations.
Speaker B:When I understudied that my understudy assignment was like, Uncle Joe Gargery and the guy playing Pip.
Speaker B:Like, I was the youngest person in the Apprentice class.
Speaker B:Not even 21.
Speaker B:I was 20.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you telling me I'm supposed to play like, you're like, really?
Speaker B:So it was like, for me, it was always like, what's.
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker B:What is this world?
Speaker B:Because I was like, why can't I play a young black boy who's, like, going through this stuff and has a lot of heart?
Speaker B:Why am I playing?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And I've never really said this out loud in public.
Speaker B:Like, a lot of my friends, I don't get asked this question.
Speaker B:But, like, transitioning in the theater world is like a butterfly effect where, like, you can make your own world an avenue and give yourself a lot of peace.
Speaker B:And, like, I might get a little emotional saying this.
Speaker B:Like, in many ways, some people don't transition because, yeah, you're getting that check.
Speaker B:And to transition costs money.
Speaker B:It's not cheap, like, to cover the gender affirming hair.
Speaker B:Some people, if you choose to do laser, like, I knew for me, if I was going to start estrogen and T blockers, I'm so sorry, I was not going to do a facial hair.
Speaker B:I couldn't handle it.
Speaker B:I did not have that mental resolve.
Speaker B:But, like, it was so interesting because, like, even in the acting industry, I can tell you there's probably a lot of actors who might want to transition, specifically black actors, and they're scared.
Speaker B:Like, for white actors, they still already engage in their own hardships.
Speaker B:Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to take that from my white trans colleagues.
Speaker B:But they don't under.
Speaker B:They don't go through the same thing that we do because, like, for them, they.
Speaker B:The gender standard and gender in itself and practice was built around white bodies.
Speaker B:You have like, white psychologists like Simone de Beauvier, who was like, talking about her feminist philosophy on womanhood, and she says, like, womanhood isn't something that you are, like, necessarily that, like, born.
Speaker B:No one is born a woman.
Speaker B:You become a woman.
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:This is a French psychologist, and she was saying this about how womanhood is like, is something that is given to you in relation to the society that you exhibit or, like, that you exist in.
Speaker B:And so when I think about that with theater, I think it just always, like, I was always a writer.
Speaker B:I grew up around a mom who was a writer.
Speaker B:So for me, it was like, if I can't get the roles I want.
Speaker B:And because I didn't have parents who were always like, oh, you can't do it.
Speaker B:Like, my parents were always nervous.
Speaker B:Some days I made my parents even, like, way nervous that they even were prepared for it.
Speaker B:To be honest, out of all their children, I chose to study acting.
Speaker B:Everybody else in my family is a STEM major.
Speaker B:Like, they were gagged, you know, And I just had this mindset of, like, well, if I can't get it from you, I'm get it from somewhere, and I don't care where or how I got to do it, but I want to be on a stage somehow.
Speaker B:And I know I could.
Speaker B:I know I'm like, this is something else.
Speaker B:A little like, who vulnerable.
Speaker B:I know I'm a star and I'm tired of, like, being scared of what that power could do for me.
Speaker B:Because, like, I was in my senior year playing the principal role at the Guthrie, and before me, I did not Know any black non binary actors that were out in non binary, like so truly black trans actors that were being given that role, like place to be principal?
Speaker B:I was an understudying.
Speaker B:I was a principal actor at 22.
Speaker B:Do you know when I. Yeah.
Speaker B:Even with that place, I was running into the thing of like black excellence.
Speaker B:Like, is it for me, is it against me?
Speaker B:And like to keep up with that world at a younger age is very mentally exhausting, like, very, very tiring.
Speaker B:And if I could go back in time, like I would have transitioned earlier and I would have like taken my time auditioning for like different roles.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:But that's now that you are on the other side of that.
Speaker A:Yeah, kind of like on the other side now you've transit, you're, you're living in your truth.
Speaker A:How has that journey been like for you now?
Speaker A:How are you navigating life, love, work and everything in between as Nigerian trans woman living in America who's black in the Twin Cities?
Speaker A:You know, all these, all these things that you hold, what is that, what is that like for you think?
Speaker B:Like, I'm still catching up to like what some of it could be because I think pre transition I did not expect myself to be able to work.
Speaker B:I also thought that like, I would not, to be honest.
Speaker B:I did not think like I'm talking to you from like my own apartment where I live alone and pay for it.
Speaker B:Like when I was about to transition, I had a bit of a victim mindset to it that I had, I think we had talked about it maybe in creating change and we were like grabbing sushi, but like, we didn't go into it, but like, it felt like something I had held in for so long that like those first few months, like it was very much like it's all just coming out, like you can't really hide it.
Speaker B:And like I.
Speaker B:How is life for me?
Speaker B:Work wise?
Speaker B:Like work life, like, it's good.
Speaker B:I mean it's definitely a mind fuck because like, I think it taught me to raise the standards for my life and how I see myself.
Speaker B:Truthfully speaking, like, I did not think that I was as good of a writer pre transition or like I didn't think that was as good of an actor.
Speaker B:I also was like, I would always find little faults.
Speaker B:I was always just in this thing of like always wanting to like be the best.
Speaker B:And I was like, I always have something I can work on with myself.
Speaker B:So transitioning has helped me accept it.
Speaker B:So in regards to work, pretty good.
Speaker B:Is it shocking?
Speaker B:Many days, yes.
Speaker B:Like, do I have to deal with some transphobia too?
Speaker B:Like, absolutely.
Speaker B:Do I also have to deal with the fact that, like, in many spaces, like, people are considering me a black woman, Especially with how I practice my femininity.
Speaker B:It's like, okay, yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it's like a deeper realization to the world that I knew, but I, like, was never a part of.
Speaker B:Like, I was always an ally for those.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:I was an ally for the girls, and then now I'm one of the girls, and I'm like, wow.
Speaker B:It's definitely a thing of, like, I have to be more conscious because I'm not gonna lie to you, I can't go into any space where it's, like, unsafe for me, whether it's emotionally, physically, socially.
Speaker B:And, like, even when I try to go into some of those spaces where, like, it's not as safe for, like, folks like me or me, it's.
Speaker B:It's kind of like.
Speaker B:It's like, teaches me to be a little more conscious and turn my brain on.
Speaker B:That's something.
Speaker B:My gay dad, Aries, it would always.
Speaker B:To me, my dad will always be like, Aries would be like, mina, turn your brain on.
Speaker B:Because I'd be like, I'm scared.
Speaker B:I don't know what's going on.
Speaker B:There's stuff going on in my chest.
Speaker B:Like, I need to be like, pause.
Speaker B:Turn your brain on.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, wait, my brain's on.
Speaker B:Okay, it's good.
Speaker B:So it's a definite, like, reparenting and, like, regrounding.
Speaker B:And, like, anytime I see a box, I just try to find ways to make my own elements.
Speaker B:The box is paper, so I'm building origami around it.
Speaker B:And, like, yeah, with love.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:It's interesting because I'm the first trans girl.
Speaker B:For a lot of people, like, it's kind of similar.
Speaker B:The funny thing is, it's very similar to how I felt in theater spaces and my work and why I, like, spend time writing the things I do or, like, pursuing the things I want.
Speaker B:Because, like, before, like, being publicly trans Nigerian, I also.
Speaker B:The first one to talk about there was like, what was I for?
Speaker B:La Francis was doing this before I did.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And since for La Francis, like, there's other trans Nigerian girls who have entered different spaces Online.
Speaker B:Margie King, DJ, you got, like, St. Lilith who does makeup.
Speaker B:But, like, when I look at my industry of theater or.
Speaker B:Or even acting for black trans women and just stepping into the broader diasporic sense of it like, I was like, there's not a lot of us who are taking the time to write our own stories and either be in them or like, produce them.
Speaker B:And so it finds me in many places, like, wanting to just be a builder of worlds.
Speaker B:I think it'll prep me for, like, it's prepping me in a good way to be a mother someday to other young artists or kids someday.
Speaker B:Not now, actually, not in anytime soon.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:I cannot afford to have some kids, you know, saying big sister General needs to finish her transition for her.
Speaker B:So like, her first three or four years, give me a second.
Speaker B:But like, yeah, it is a thing of what I run into with love.
Speaker B:And dating is like, before, I used to hate being the first.
Speaker B:Like, I hated being the first in the room, where I hated being the only one in the room.
Speaker B:Room.
Speaker B:And now it's taught me to kind of like, have some peace with it.
Speaker B:Because also, truthfully, like, some of the problems I was having with those rooms were champagne problems.
Speaker B:You know, Champagne versus Prosecco.
Speaker B:If you wanted Prosecco, you can't come if you want champagne and you the plate that you got Prosecco, like, really, girl, like, just drink it.
Speaker B:Just drink the frickin drink.
Speaker B:But like, when I run into it in these worlds, like, it's a lot of pressure because also stepping into, like, organizing nightlife, you know, last year was the first year I'd done freaky girl.
Speaker B:Some am a freaky girl.
Speaker B:I'd hit up with nephew.
Speaker B:I was like, well, shout out to y'.
Speaker B:All, hi, babes.
Speaker B:I was like, hey, I want to do a pride party at some mama.
Speaker B:Why has no one come up to y' all and done this?
Speaker B:And like, even this year, doing freaky girl pride again.
Speaker B:And like, with my sister Maame, and then being able to be like, hey, for this stage, I only want black bodies on there.
Speaker B:And I told security that, like, it's interesting because it's like my existence raises the standards of what so many people expect for black trans women.
Speaker B:And that makes me sad and angry in so many ways.
Speaker B:So it's a heartbreaking, joyful activity every day because I have to choose to not be like, a span of like, less than 10 minutes and focus on the joy and the p. The happy perspective of it, on the optimism of it, right?
Speaker B:Because if I really spend time being on, like, wow, I really think this fly is cute.
Speaker B:And like, in so many ways, I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm like, he's only.
Speaker B:I mean, the first trans girl he's dating and that makes me sad if I, if I really just indulge that feeling, like, I would not be open to meeting people at all.
Speaker B:Or like, oh, like I, I am really love this girl.
Speaker B:She's really cute, all these things, but I'm her the first black trans girl she's been on a date with.
Speaker B:Like, it's like, you know, statistically speaking, also how many dolls that came before me in Minneapolis that felt comfortable like dating.
Speaker B:For the dolls that came before us, it was a different ball game.
Speaker B:Like, we see Laverne Cox come to the playing field a bit.
Speaker B:Mother Lavern, I already said a bit about what I think.
Speaker B:Why would she pose that?
Speaker B:And also just truthfully pulled her with Karen Love.
Speaker B:But like that, that interview especially because, like when I was younger, Laverne Cox was the first trans women I had seen her MJ Rodriguez and what's her name from Pose, Dark Skin, Angelica Ross and then also Dominique too.
Speaker B:Like that was on Pose as well.
Speaker B:Like, I loved the dolls of Pose.
Speaker B:Even India Moore.
Speaker B:It was when that show came out, when I was like high school, senior, freshman year, college.
Speaker B:Like, I loved the trans women there and like, it was a different life for the girls if people like, like, how many people would really feel comfortable, like walking out with a trans woman in their arm, let alone a black trans woman, and then also then looking into what they had to like, do and accomplish to be in the spaces they were existing in.
Speaker B:So like, for me personally, like, it teaches me to accept that the standard of my life has raised.
Speaker B:And also in many ways, like, I'm grieving because also, like my homegirl slash big sister, General Mommy really taught me a lot.
Speaker B:She's a Scorpio, so she taught me a lot about grief.
Speaker B:And like, there's so much like mourning that I have to do on a daily basis of like, I'm putting away how I viewed myself in theatrical spaces.
Speaker B:I'm putting away like the expectations that they had on me, like when I was just non binary and easier for them to understand.
Speaker B:And putting away the fear of like a little bit of like intimacy and love and like, I'm starting to just like, honestly, I just have to fucking trust myself or like fully dive in.
Speaker A:That is really beautiful to hear actually.
Speaker A:And I think that that is actually kind of evident in.
Speaker A:Because I did see bad Africans.
Speaker A:I saw bad Africans and shout out to you also for just even showing love to Fola Frances and, and keeping that memory alive because I knew them, they were an exceptional human being.
Speaker A:So for you to do that was really awesome.
Speaker A:So thank you for that also.
Speaker A:May they rest in peace.
Speaker A:But Bad Africans was also just a very beautiful.
Speaker A:It's a workshop play.
Speaker A:I don't know what to call it yet.
Speaker A:Maybe you can probably define it.
Speaker A:But it was just very moving to see you talk about your experience as a black trans person, Black trans woman navigating your culture and being black in America and being a trans woman and all these different pieces and holding that together.
Speaker A:So talk to the folks about Bad Africans for a bit and about where you see that work of art going in the future.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, like, Bad Africans was my way of.
Speaker B:First of all, thank you so much for that.
Speaker B:I didn't know that you knew Fallout.
Speaker B:That's, like, actually really, really beautiful.
Speaker B:Like, oh, my gosh, we should chat more about that, like, outside of here.
Speaker B:Because, like, we are.
Speaker B:We're literally neighbors.
Speaker B:But, like, Bad Africans, when I started writing that show, it's a solo show about, like, young African influencer, loosely based off some real events.
Speaker B:Maybe not.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:But, like, when I wrote that and, like, I'm actually doing.
Speaker B:I actually have some rewrites I need to get done today, too.
Speaker B:Just for myself.
Speaker B:I wanted to invite, like, especially other black audience members into, like, the workshop process of a play.
Speaker B:Especially, like, a new version of workshopping.
Speaker B:A play right, where people are looking at this solo show and they're like, it could be a film.
Speaker B:It could be this, it could be that, it could be this.
Speaker B:Like, with that, I'm currently trying to, like, refine more thoughts because I know that it goes into so many different worlds.
Speaker B:And right now I'm trying to rewrite it for it to, like, keep us in the digital realm.
Speaker B:And most importantly, like, I want to turn it into, like, a series, too, truthfully, slash film.
Speaker B:As, like, I enjoyed writing Love is like, I have so many writing projects that I'm just, like, analyzing this play.
Speaker B:I'm rewriting two different, like, classical plays right now for them to.
Speaker B:One is Soundtrack to Check Chapel Rome.
Speaker B:The other one is, like, soundtrack to, like, Amore and, like, some Tinashe music.
Speaker B:So I'm trying to, like, play with that there.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker B:But, like, with Bad Africans, like, I'm currently trying to write what I know and explore what I don't know.
Speaker B:And I want to refine it to have it, like, be its own standalone solo show, like, by the end of the year.
Speaker B:And, you know, either, if not next year, in, like, two years, if not within the next year, or, like, two years from now, I would like to do it as like, it's as like a fully staged play and as a fully staged solo show.
Speaker B:It's a really good play.
Speaker B:I think, like, so many young Africans could do this play.
Speaker B:It's now just trying to decide, like, if I want to write this because when I started writing this, I was just like, non binary and filing asylum.
Speaker B:Now as I continue writing it, I'm like, is this a non binary story or is it just.
Speaker B:Is this now a black trans girl story?
Speaker B:And how is that, like, interested?
Speaker B:How does that, like, intersect with the historical facts that people learn about within it?
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's in its place of, like, its final stages of refinement, I think.
Speaker B:And I want to do another, like, showing for folks soon.
Speaker B:I'm just trying to find, like, I will love that.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:I will love that.
Speaker A:I want to see it again.
Speaker A:It was so moving.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:There were parts of it, I was so moving parts of it that were very reflective of just the queer experience of someone who is just African and queer.
Speaker A:So that was really beautiful to watch and witness.
Speaker A:And I really, I really, I really hope you do it again.
Speaker A:And when you do it again, I'll be there, front row to see it.
Speaker B:I don't want people to think of OG as me.
Speaker B:That feels like a lot of pressure on my personal life.
Speaker B:So I'm trying to decide, like, how much do I, like, I need OG to be itself standalone person?
Speaker B:Because, like, yes, it's based off my life, but there's so much of that that is not my life.
Speaker B:And I'm kind of like moving it.
Speaker B:We're doing a bit of like, instead of as much time jumps, we're putting it in the present, really just diving into like, you know, that black mirror effect almost of like, maybe a little bit of like, distortion and creepiness of like or like, thought provokes of like, wow, how do I interact with Instagram, with these platforms?
Speaker B:Truthfully?
Speaker B:Like, how do I want to exist on here as a black queer body?
Speaker B:And how does it deal with that?
Speaker B:In relation to what?
Speaker B:Like our trans ancestors or black queer ancestors or African like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like those ancestors that I mentioned.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I really want it to be like, not just like specifically African trans history from the continent now.
Speaker B:I want it to be like, about, like.
Speaker B:Because I think black Americans are African people.
Speaker B:You know, they are African descendants of slavery.
Speaker B:That's just the term of it.
Speaker B:And looking into ethnicity and writing that, I want bad Africans to kind of carry this torch for like black trans history and I'm currently applying for, like, more grants to, like, produce it.
Speaker B:So it's like, I'm writing the play and I'm also trying to produce it by myself at the same time.
Speaker A:You got this.
Speaker A:If there's any way that can speak to the subject matter in the way that it should be spoken to, I am.
Speaker A:I'm confident in your ability to do that as well.
Speaker A:And another project I saw was Love is Like.
Speaker A:I saw it initially early on in the year, and now it's gonna be at the Black August Square Film Festival at Pillsbury Creative Commons on August 31st.
Speaker A:So do you want to talk about Love is like, a little bit?
Speaker B:Yes, I love that.
Speaker A:What kind of inspired that?
Speaker B:So Love is like, started with my friend Mariah Hansen, and I. I wrote the.
Speaker B:I wrote this film, like, out of sonnets in college because I was really interested in, like, you know, pissing off white people who did not see black bodies in, like, foreign cinema and, like, classical work.
Speaker B:And Mariah was.
Speaker B:I would have to thank her so much for being, like, an amazing collaborator.
Speaker B:She was the story editor, art direction.
Speaker B:Like, helped me edit this.
Speaker B:Like, not helps.
Speaker B:She edited this film.
Speaker B:And I just, like, played the director.
Speaker B:Like, I act, not minimizing my efforts.
Speaker B:Like, I acted, I wrote it.
Speaker B:I also was part of the producing team, and she was like, that one woman editing team.
Speaker B:Shout out to Olu K, who was second camera on the project.
Speaker B:Ashe was like, my assistant director, Yoni movement director.
Speaker B:Like, there are a lot of folks who will bring that world together.
Speaker B:Zora, who helped with, like, music for it.
Speaker B:So, like, Love is Black was, like, my first way to, like, joining film because I just didn't like the scripts I was seeing for, like, film in Minnesota, if I was being honest.
Speaker B:And also, like, I wanted to do things that were black and queer and trans.
Speaker B:I did not want to play a black CIS het man, like, just because, like, sometimes you fall into that thing of it being, like, black.
Speaker B:Straight people get to explore so many human details sometimes, and even then you're looking at it with, like, a grain of salt.
Speaker B:Because in many ways, like, those characters can also easily not be written with, like, as much humanity.
Speaker B:So for me, it was like, I wanted to play a queer character who was, like, still complex, still dope and, like, also, I wanted to make a silent film because people say I talk too much, which they're not wrong.
Speaker B:And also making a silent film and, like, not wanting to, like, deal with audio.
Speaker B:Like, just this was, like, a film that was made on no budget and Now I'm trying to, like, make more films with budget and, like, build a crew.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, Love Is like was my first foray into, like, acting on camera.
Speaker B:I was very scared.
Speaker B:Mariah was, like, an amazing, like, director behind the scenes as well when I was able to direct.
Speaker B:Now she's like, in the pool doing the water scenes and, like, doing the bedroom scenes and dining table.
Speaker B:Because that one was a lot about, like, what can image say when this isn't doing anything on the film?
Speaker B:And also, people don't read enough.
Speaker B:So I wanted people to read, like, truthfully.
Speaker B:So I was like, well, y' all are going to read this silent film and watch it and enjoy it, and you will learn a lot about self love for yourself.
Speaker B:And the interesting thing with that project is, like, I get misgendered both ways.
Speaker B:Like, because pre transition, people just was like, oh, well, he.
Speaker B:But I use they.
Speaker B:Them pronouns.
Speaker B:And then, like, even now standing here as, like, a woman, like, it's interesting.
Speaker B:Like, I screened it at public functionary and there was somebody who was like, oh, well, he had.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, he does wrong pronouns.
Speaker B:I had to, like, nip that in the bud real quick.
Speaker B:But, like, it's interesting when people see the person that was in that film and the person, like, the creator and writer of it and, like, director of it, like, who's here in front of them, they're like, there's a.
Speaker B:There's almost like a mindflip for them because they're like, whoa.
Speaker B:And for me, as a black trans woman, because there's so many girls who will not show you their face, like, pre transition.
Speaker B:And they're well within their rights to not disclose that if they don't want to for that safety.
Speaker B:And even, like, the boys, too, like, black trans people don't owe this, like, don't owe you vulnerability that, like, makes you feel good.
Speaker B:Unless the black trans person wants to share it, go ahead and share it.
Speaker B:I just have to throw that in there.
Speaker B:But, yeah, Love is like, came from also just wanting to make a good film.
Speaker B:And the reception of it in Minnesota has made my heart sing.
Speaker B:And now I'm trying to see what other festivals I want to submit it for and what other places I should, because I don't know much about film.
Speaker B:I don't know much about producing, but I want to, like, be into it more and I want to, like, do it more because it's a really great medium.
Speaker B:And I love, like, yeah, the camera, and the camera loves me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What is the message of Love, like, for folks, like, what do you want folks to take away from love life when they can't see it on August 3rd?
Speaker B:I want people to take the message away from it of like, because that love isn't really a definable thing.
Speaker B:You can't really define love.
Speaker B:Like, lol.
Speaker B:All these likes that I'm saying, hence the title.
Speaker B:Love is like.
Speaker B:That's literally how you say people.
Speaker B:Like, love is like.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you mean love is like potential for you to say.
Speaker B:Like when people, you know, when black, like, yo, she be like.
Speaker B:But the message I want people to take away from that film is like, spend time with yourself more.
Speaker B:Even the parts of you that are insecure.
Speaker B:Like, it's okay to be insecure.
Speaker B:Like, it's okay to like, not know how you want to express your love.
Speaker B:But that doesn't also mean that, like, you should not hold it with care whether it's for yourself or someone else.
Speaker B:And I hope you'll also get to like, meet a part of me.
Speaker B:That's a takeaway.
Speaker B:I want people to do like.
Speaker B:I want people to meet a part of me.
Speaker B:Because sometimes, like, I meet so many people every day in Minneapolis.
Speaker B:Or like, people who are like, I love your Instagram, I like your vibe.
Speaker B:And I'm like, I love y' all too.
Speaker B:And also I have social anxiety and I don't know how to share with new people and what to share.
Speaker B:So sometimes like, my art is just the best way of sharing how I feel or what I want to say or like, what I want to do in this life.
Speaker B:Like, even in little conversations sometimes, I don't know, I just want to be quiet actually and non verbal.
Speaker B:So like, I hope people get to know a part of me that I don't share often, you know, also on my Instagram, I write a lot, so please, please look on my Instagram.
Speaker B:Ardistafrican.
Speaker B:I just dropped an essay on like, Black Trans hair and Poetry as luxury in relation to that conversation with Audre Lorde.
Speaker B:But yeah, I want people to know that, like, love can be messy.
Speaker B:Spend more time alone.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:So if you're in the Twin Cities area on Aug. 31, it's the black August Queer Film Festival happening at the Pillsbury Creative Commons.
Speaker A:And love is like, we'll be showing on that day.
Speaker A:So check it out.
Speaker A:It's the Pillsbury Creative Commons, the Black August Queer Film Festival.
Speaker A:Please come support a very amazing and creative black trans woman if you can.
Speaker A:Ibim and I have, before we wrap up, I Have some rapid fire fun questions for you.
Speaker A:What are three songs you will recommend to someone who is listening to this podcast right now?
Speaker A:Like, you're like, you have to listen to these three songs right now.
Speaker B:She is My Drug by Amara.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Losing you by Solange.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:What's something that.
Speaker B:Pursuit of Happiness by Kid Cudi.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:The love, the diversity with the music.
Speaker A:Shout out to that.
Speaker A:What is a TV show you recommend to someone listening to this podcast right now?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Because I've been engaging in reality TV more and more.
Speaker B:I love watching reality television.
Speaker B:I would recommend Love island beyond the Villa or Love island season six.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Shout out to Love Island.
Speaker A:Shout out to Love Island.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What is your favorite.
Speaker A:What's your favorite meal?
Speaker B:Meal right now?
Speaker B:I've been loving a lot of breakfast food.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna lie to you.
Speaker B:So, like, scrambled eggs and plantain is a vibe.
Speaker A:Ooh, I want to get.
Speaker A:I want plantain and egg sauce.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:That's what.
Speaker A:I'm crazy.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I'll.
Speaker B:I'll make sure to prepare a pen then next time I see you as.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:And finally, what is your guilty pleasure?
Speaker A:You know, guilty pleasure could be.
Speaker A:It could be reality tv, it could be ice cream.
Speaker A:It could be.
Speaker A:It could be a myriad of things.
Speaker B:My guilty pleasure.
Speaker B:I'm fine.
Speaker A:Yeah, hilarious.
Speaker B:I'm like, what is the most appropriate thing to say for the podcast?
Speaker B:Because I'm also like.
Speaker B:The first thing I was going to say was like, oh, I almost.
Speaker B:I almost.
Speaker B:I almost said something a little rated R. My guilty pleasure right now is intimacy and black intimacy.
Speaker B:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, so shout out to black intimacy.
Speaker B:Seeing how that's written, how that's live.
Speaker B:And, like, also, I've been loving seeing, like, black trans women with their black partner.
Speaker B:So that's been just my guilty pleasure.
Speaker B:Like, online, just, like, looking at the dolls, like, with their, like, beautiful black partners and, like, just living.
Speaker B:That's been my guilty pleasure.
Speaker B:If I'm being honest.
Speaker B:That's been my escapism.
Speaker B:Because with all these laws and things that we're even just talking about, like the Asylum update, like, and big beautiful Bill.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ibi Mina, this has been such a lovely conversation, but before you go, what is your hope for the next for Ibiminae for, like, the foreseeable future?
Speaker A:I know there's still so much that, you know, you want to accomplish, but what does that look like in the next 10 years?
Speaker A:Where do you want Ibimina to be, and what do you want Ibimat to be?
Speaker B:Doing.
Speaker B:I hope I do ride by myself more.
Speaker B:That's my big one.
Speaker B:I hope I do right by myself more.
Speaker B:I hope I'm prepared for next time I go.
Speaker B:Because if people think you're shocked by the things I do, honey, I'm shocked by what I wake up and do some days, like, every day.
Speaker B:Like, even transitioning, I was like, you really just woke up in transition?
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, yeah, I did.
Speaker B:I, I, I, I'm always shocked.
Speaker B:So, like, I hope I'm more prepared to hold myself with care, and I hope I don't limit myself out of fear.
Speaker A:That's the word.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I feel like that's all gonna happen.
Speaker A:From your lips to the God's ears.
Speaker A:Very thankful that you chose to come on this podcast.
Speaker A:I'm very thankful for that.
Speaker A:Also.
Speaker A:Very thankful that you get.
Speaker A:You got to share and be open, and I really love your work, and I just really hope that it continues to grow and grow and be better.
Speaker A:Constant cheering you on and rooting you on and supporting you through all of this.
Speaker A:And I just want to appreciate y' all for tuning in, for listening from the very beginning.
Speaker A:If you're still on here, shout out to you.
Speaker A:I'm very grateful.
Speaker A:If you're watching on YouTube.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Listen on wherever you stream your podcast.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Till the next episode, Odejuma.
