Man Code’s Ryan Walker-Edwards is Just Getting Started
In this episode of Odejuma, Harry chats with writer and actor Ryan Walker-Edwards for a heartfelt conversation about storytelling, identity, and his acclaimed short film, "Man Code." They explore the power of sharing personal stories and emphasize moving past trauma-centered views of queer life to highlight joy, intimacy, and humor.
Ryan shares his journey from Birmingham to the screen, discussing how his Caribbean heritage and cultural background influence his work, also emphasizing the importance of creating art that resonates with queer folk. The conversation also addresses the challenges of gaining visibility in the arts, the need for more nuanced storytelling, and the importance of self-care in sustaining a creative career.
Through Ryan’s experiences and the success of "Man Code," this discussion serves as a reminder of the transformative impact of authentic representation and how Black queer voices are reshaping contemporary storytelling.
Watch Man Code here.
To stay connected with Ryan, follow him on Instagram.
For more information on Harry, visit: Harry Itie
Transcript
Hi, my name is Harry, and welcome to Odejuma.
Speaker A:Odejuma recognizes the magic of storytelling.
Speaker A:From personal experiences to stories of adventure, from tales of resilience to finding joy in the simple things, this story seeks to inspire, entertain, and educate because there is power in the stories of everyday people, and these stories are worth telling.
Speaker A:Hey, welcome to another episode of Odejuma.
Speaker A:I'm excited about this one because I have Ryan Walker Edwards here.
Speaker A:I got a chance to see Man Code online, and it's like one of my favorite short films ever.
Speaker A:So very excited to have you, Ryan.
Speaker A:Hey, Ryan, how you doing?
Speaker B:Hey, Harry.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm good, man.
Speaker B:Not too.
Speaker B:Not too bad.
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:It was bank holiday weekend in here, so everyone was out carnival and, you know, whatever parties people are at.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's been good, man.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:I'm doing great.
Speaker A:I'm doing great.
Speaker A:I saw the videos from Carnival.
Speaker A:Did you have, like, a costume on?
Speaker A:Were you outside?
Speaker A:Were you?
Speaker A:I see.
Speaker B:I was outside, but only for the food, because sort of like, where, like, I was like, we kind of like, quite close to.
Speaker B:To the carnival, so it's really easy to walk in, get some food, see a couple of people, and then sort of like, you know, go back to my.
Speaker B:My house.
Speaker B:So I was outside for a bit, but then I was inside for the majority.
Speaker B:The rest of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:Excited, excited.
Speaker A:I read that.
Speaker A:Something I want to be a part of because I know I see the videos every year because I've been like, you know, I'm going to.
Speaker A:Is on my bucket list.
Speaker A:I have to be at Notting Hill Carnival with a costume or two.
Speaker B:With a costume, with.
Speaker B:With the sequins and everything.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Everything.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:But I was talking, you know, when I was introducing you about how I found you, like on Man Code, which is a really.
Speaker A:It's such a very, very interesting short film because.
Speaker A:And we're going to get more into it later on, but just want to say that when you are looking at short films that talk about, like, the queer experience, sometimes it's always very hinges on trauma a little bit.
Speaker A:And this is just a regular.
Speaker A:Just a regular experience.
Speaker A:Another day in the life, you know, and it just was very nice to see.
Speaker A:And then I. I went to, you know, I just did a little dig in and like, oh, you're also the writer of the short film.
Speaker A:And I thought that was really cool.
Speaker A:But before we get into that, I want to just know a little bit about growing up for you, what was that like?
Speaker A:And when did you decide that you wanted to be in the arts?
Speaker B:Be in the arts?
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I'm Caribbean, Jamaican, from Birmingham, which is in the middle of England.
Speaker B:It's the second largest city.
Speaker B:Even though people don't really like to, you know, talk about it in that sort of way.
Speaker B:But in terms of getting into the arts, I think that my parents got me into improvisation and acting.
Speaker B:I would like to say it's because maybe they sort of, like, maybe saw me and was like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:This is someone who probably is gonna have.
Speaker B:Maybe have a marginalized identity.
Speaker B:I don't know, is gonna have to be quick with it.
Speaker B:Who knows, in that sort of way.
Speaker B:I'd like to think it's that way and not a bunch of trauma.
Speaker B:But in terms of getting into the arts, there was a lot of improvisation, which was part of, like, a drama.
Speaker B:Sort of, like, workshop I went to after school was great because it was free.
Speaker B:That one really.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There was sort of, like, based a lot of the times on sort of, like, merit.
Speaker B:And you had a load of different people from all different backgrounds there, which was good.
Speaker B:And then from there sort of, like, went on to do a bit of acting.
Speaker B:And then I think what I found is that I was acting a bit, but I wanted to create my own sort of, like, work.
Speaker B:Because I think there was a bit of a disconnect maybe from how the industry saw me to actually who I kind of was.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of my early stuff was kind of, like, quite hood and, you know, quite a little bit stereotypical.
Speaker B:And then there was a disconnect sometimes going into the room for auditions, and then you'll be turning around.
Speaker B:And I was studying literature at the time.
Speaker B:So, you know, as one does when they're reading all these books, you're coming with these thoughts and they're just like, okay.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes there isn't necessarily a connect there.
Speaker B:So that's why I started writing.
Speaker B:So I started with a radio play, and then I sort of.
Speaker B:Well, before that, I kind of went into music, and then the lockdown happened.
Speaker B:So then I basically brought out my radio play, and then that did quite well.
Speaker B:Then did a theater play.
Speaker B:And then Man Code happened.
Speaker B:And, yeah, we're kind of here now, so it's been slow and steady.
Speaker B:But, yeah, getting into the arts, to answer your question, was really just through giving myself a little bit of confidence when I was younger.
Speaker B:And then that just snowballed into this other beast that we're here with now.
Speaker A:That is pretty cool.
Speaker A:That is pretty cool.
Speaker A:You talk about being a artist.
Speaker A:So you did music, you've done theater, you did a radio play, now you're doing like, you're doing film.
Speaker A:Do you consider yourself like a multi hyphenate artist?
Speaker A:Like, that is like your identity or you.
Speaker B:You know what that is?
Speaker B:I think that's something that's happened by default.
Speaker B:I think going back to what we were saying before, where a lot of the times you're sort of searching for the infrastructure that isn't really sort of afforded to you.
Speaker B:So you sometimes do need to produce the things, you do need to back it, you do need to collaborate.
Speaker B:You're doing a lot of things.
Speaker B:And I always hate the analogy, like sort of like working twice as hard just to get half, but sometimes that is like a prerequisite to even get into the room, you know.
Speaker B:I know that does cause trauma and that's because a lot of burnout sometimes.
Speaker B:But I think, yeah, it's just been a multi hyphenate by default because it just felt like where I was sort of coming from.
Speaker B:I needed to sort of like push the ideas.
Speaker B:Because when I probably go into the rooms and say something or say, hey, this is it, a lot of people maybe won't understand the reference.
Speaker B:That's why.
Speaker B:Yeah, to answer the question, I do think I'm a multi hyphenate.
Speaker B:I do sometimes I wish it was a little bit different, but I think a lot of the times if you want to sort of like take control of your narrative, you do have to do a load of different things and collaborate with the right people.
Speaker A:I mean, you say you wish it was a little bit different.
Speaker A:Can you like, talk about that a little bit more?
Speaker A:Like, in what way do you envision it ideally for you?
Speaker B:Well, it's great now because I think with projects like Man Code and speaking to lovely people like yourself and all the other people have shown love to the project and have supported it.
Speaker B:It opens doors and it allows for like entry, to be honest, like, you're now tested, which is good.
Speaker B:But I think just starting out, even though, yes, you do have to like, work hard.
Speaker B:I'm not saying, you know, I just wanted to sit out and chill and be like, yeah, like give me all these things.
Speaker B:But it really was about backing yourself.
Speaker B:And I think the reason why I did fall into sort of this multi hyphenate, like all compassing artists thing was because I think there wasn't the infrastructure there.
Speaker B:And I think in terms of the Support and like, the.
Speaker B:There were a few mentors, but it was sometimes very far and few between.
Speaker B:So I really had to kind of take in charge by myself.
Speaker B:And, yeah, that's great.
Speaker B:But like I said before, doing a lot of stuff can also lead to a lot of burnout.
Speaker B:That sort of working twice as hard, like, analogy that I sometimes that my parents gave to me, I'm a bit like, yeah, but working hard.
Speaker B:And then you only just get slightly into the rooms and, you know, you only get in half.
Speaker B:It's difficult itself, you know.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's complex, but we move in it.
Speaker B:We move.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it can be frustrating because it's like, why do I have to work twice?
Speaker A:Like, why do I have to, you know, put in so much, much work to get like, you know, a tiny piece of the pie?
Speaker A:So, you know, I resonate so clearly.
Speaker A:How do you manage that, though?
Speaker B:How do I.
Speaker A:Take care of yourself going through that process.
Speaker B:I think I've got a really good support network where I can just run.
Speaker B:I'm using today as a way to rent and, you know, to speak.
Speaker B:But I think I've got a good support network and just to really be kind to myself.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think before, when starting out, you want to do everything.
Speaker B:There's always this thing.
Speaker B:I'll push yourself out there, like, you know, be, do this, do that.
Speaker B:I think now I'm slightly.
Speaker B:A little bit more targeted and I think with that allows for, like, rest.
Speaker B:I think sometimes just being able to say, hey, look, I don't have capacity to do this, or I don't really want to do this at this time.
Speaker B:It's such a great thing because it's not.
Speaker B:All the wheels aren't in motion and then I can just focus on maintaining and nurturing the things that I already have and that I want to grow.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's where we're kind of am at the moment and just, I know, watching a load of films, sleeping, trying to be human, trying to be like, you know, an actual, like, look like, you know, relaxed, you know, like, rest is resistance in a way.
Speaker B:So that's what I'm trying to.
Speaker B:To do.
Speaker B:To do more of.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's real.
Speaker A:That's real.
Speaker A:I feel you on that one.
Speaker A:And talk about your background a little bit.
Speaker A:You said you were like, Caribbean.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker A:But in the uk, how does that influence, like, your work and how you approach your work and are there, like, any influences you pull from your background?
Speaker B:You know what, it is complex, I think because I am Jamaican and Caribbean, if anyone, Pen Bethel, so very Christian boy.
Speaker B:So in terms of my work and stuff like that, I was always the odd kid.
Speaker B:Like, I remember literally going to.
Speaker B:I think the first day we went to this new church, and I got into a fight with someone, like, literally, like one of the younger kids.
Speaker B:It wasn't a bad thing, in a way, but I think it was always, like, I was a little bit of.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say I was a troublemaker, but I was very cheeky and very questioning of things.
Speaker B:I don't know if that is obviously lent into sort of, like, the stories that I tell and, like, you know, my own queerness.
Speaker B:But it was always this thing of, like.
Speaker B:I think sometimes in terms of, like, especially, like, Caribbean Jamaican culture, especially when you're talking about the sort of, like, religious side of it, there is sort of a lot of respectability and strictness, as one would say with it.
Speaker B:And a lot of the times being younger, I always kind of.
Speaker B:I didn't rebel, but I'd ask a lot of questions.
Speaker B:And then I was called, like, bright or, like, you know, feisty and that type of thing there.
Speaker B:And then I sort of, like, used to.
Speaker B:I channeled that into, like, you know, a lot of, like, my work.
Speaker B:I think I'm thankful to, you know, my parents, especially my.
Speaker B:Who maybe didn't necessarily have the language, but would also try and sprinkle maybe a little bit of, like, her kind of, like, support in certain ways.
Speaker B:Obviously, it wasn't like, you know, as much as I could get from the actual world because, again, you know, cultural things.
Speaker B:But I think.
Speaker B:I think it did influence me a lot in terms of the comedy.
Speaker B:So I watched a lot of, like, Oliver Samuels.
Speaker B:He's like a really big, like, Caribbean, like, actor, comedian.
Speaker B:A lot of my work kind of features a lot of comedy.
Speaker B:I fall in terms of, like, the Jamaican culture.
Speaker B:It's fiery, it's beautiful, it's vibrant.
Speaker B:But there are some sort of, like.
Speaker B:There's a lot of emotion there.
Speaker B:And I think that's what I want my work to have.
Speaker B:I want my work to have a lot of humor, but a lot of emotion and how those two things mean and how awkward it can be and how.
Speaker B:How cool you can be to your characters as well.
Speaker B:You know, the life that you sort of live.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think my.
Speaker B:I think, in a way, yeah, my.
Speaker B:My background, all parts of it, whether the parts I deemed as good or bad or kind of like a little bit confined or sort of like, you know, a little bit.
Speaker B:I would Say, you know, a little too much in terms of like imposing rules and restrictions even that has sort of allowed me to be the kind of.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And come from the place that I want to die coming from now because I've had the ability to sort of like question it and also like show the humor of those things.
Speaker B:Even in terms of man code, it comes through there as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the background, I wouldn't take it for.
Speaker B:For anything.
Speaker B:I wouldn't take it away for, for anything.
Speaker B:I think, yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker A:And I, I feel like I also kind of like, you know, have similar backgrounds to grow up in the church, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:So like kind of resonate with like, with like what you're saying, basically.
Speaker A:So Man Code, right, The critically acclaimed short film that you were a part of, that you wrote, exploring hookup culture around black queer men in the uk.
Speaker A:What was what inspired the project?
Speaker A:Give me like a little bit of background about man code.
Speaker B:This always gets me into trouble, you know, but it's just like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:So I think in terms of like man code, I think a lot of people's way into, I'm going to say like we're life especially like dating, especially for some like, you know, black men, especially like being in from Birmingham as well.
Speaker B:A lot of it comes through sort of like secrecy and you know, like this, the.
Speaker B:Our culture, which I think, you know, it's a double edged sword in a way because in a way like there is so much scrutiny that you kind of have as like, you know, a, a black person, Caribbean person, stuff like that.
Speaker B:But then it's one of those ones where like, it can also be a safety net in a way as well.
Speaker B:But in terms of like man code and how that story came, it was sort of.
Speaker B:I think Theo and Lucas are sort of two sides of the same coin where in one way I think both the characters sort of like represent things that I've been through in terms of how I've seen like myself.
Speaker B:You've obviously got Theo, who's this person who again we talked about the.
Speaker B:If I, you know, play close to the rule books that my parents have given me, if I basically sort of, you know, go down this road of being this sort of like, you know, straight edged guy who has everything in order, has, you know, the, the house, the wife, the girlfriend, this and that.
Speaker B:But again, I'm not still fulfilled inside.
Speaker B:But then I'm doing all different things to try and sort of like mask that.
Speaker B:And obviously there's a lot of you with that within the film.
Speaker B:And then on the other side of the coin is Theo, who, you know, at one point is just like, really kind of like, liberated, very sort of like, you know, section president, who he is.
Speaker B:But it's kind of a bit of like a rebuttal or a kind of like, attack on what Lucas represents.
Speaker B:But in his own way, he wants to find love and he wants to find who he wants.
Speaker B:Kind of like maybe what, like, Lucas had in a certain way, but in on his own terms.
Speaker B:But it's kind of going through the day to day of sort of having, like, you know, relations with.
Speaker B:With, like, men and other people.
Speaker B:So I think when they're in, together in this room and there's nowhere to escape, they really have to confront their own demons.
Speaker B:So not one of them is a hero or the villain.
Speaker B:I think it's literally just the spectrum of, like, where you find yourself within kind of intimacy and sexuality.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's really what I. I wanted to explore there.
Speaker B:And there are things that, you know, definitely I've sort of, like, been through, you know, growing up.
Speaker B:So it was really good to put that in the screen in a real kind of, like, nice and.
Speaker B:And also, like, funny way as well, so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And how do you.
Speaker A:How do you think that people are.
Speaker A:Well, let me.
Speaker A:Let me rephrase.
Speaker A:You recreated this work.
Speaker A:How are.
Speaker A:How do you think folks are receiving it?
Speaker A:Or how have queer folks in the uk, what have they told you about how they're feeling about the work that you put out?
Speaker B:To be fair, it's been nice.
Speaker B:It's been nice, it's been good.
Speaker B:I think there's been more like, you know, good than, you know, than.
Speaker B:Than bad.
Speaker B:It's been really good.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people are saying, well, what happens next?
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker B:What's going on?
Speaker B:What happens next?
Speaker B:There's obviously a before and, you know, there's an after.
Speaker B:I think it's good that there's finally a bit of.
Speaker B:Even though there has been representation there.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not the first one to kind of like, you know, put kind of queerness, like black queerness on screen.
Speaker B:And I don't also want to be the last.
Speaker B:I just want to add to the canon of that.
Speaker B:But it's been really good in terms of people talking about it, starting a conversation.
Speaker B:It's going to sort of our different places, as we spoke about, you know, across the uk and then also being online and starting a conversation about, like, okay, cool, so what would you do in this situation, how would you be.
Speaker B:Would you leave the room?
Speaker B:Would you stay?
Speaker B:Would you, you know, try and sort of like, let's just say, ease.
Speaker B:Ease out, pacify them or.
Speaker B:It's really interesting just having the conversations, the comments in the discourse and what people are talking about.
Speaker B:I do like it.
Speaker B:I really do.
Speaker B:I do like it.
Speaker B:And you make work.
Speaker B:You put it out there, and then you slightly let it do its thing.
Speaker B:And I think it's been really good.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think a lot of people have said some good things about it, and it's.
Speaker B:It's okay even if people don't like it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm just.
Speaker B:I'm happy with.
Speaker B:With what people are talking about.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I saw that there's a quote from you on director's notes, and it says, this is not a queer trauma story.
Speaker A:Instead, it is a weedy tale about two men from Birmingham practicing the ancient art of hooking up and discovering a deeper sense of intimacy through honesty.
Speaker A:That's a very fascinating quote to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can you expand a little bit more on what that means?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So the director, myself, like, Adrian Gardner, the director, like, myself, like, when we're kind of, like, coming together with, you know, with the story and stuff like that, we wanted to kind of, like, put something out there that wasn't this sort of stoic piece of kind of, like, queer artwork or something.
Speaker B:That is.
Speaker B:I remember originally when we were sort of, like, you know, pitching it around before we found our people, and a lot of people wanted it to be slightly.
Speaker B:A bit more experimental.
Speaker B:The tone was slightly off.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes when it comes to black work or just in general marginalized work that doesn't necessarily, like, get the.
Speaker B:The views or doesn't necessarily get commissioned or triggers finance, there is this way of, like, it must be quite sad to be you.
Speaker B:It must be like.
Speaker B:So therefore, it has to be this place of pain, and then you're feeling a certain type of way because then you feel burdened to represent everything on the screen.
Speaker B:So we kind of came together and we said, no, like, this isn't a story that is.
Speaker B:Wants to kind of.
Speaker B:It has those elements in it.
Speaker B:It does, but we wanted to kind of provide, like, hope.
Speaker B:We wanted it to be okay.
Speaker B:This might be, like, a bad experience for someone.
Speaker B:This is a story that obviously includes shame.
Speaker B:And, you know, all these are the politics and taboos around sexuality.
Speaker B:But we wanted to find the sort of, like, joy and the nuance within that.
Speaker B:And I think that's where that quote comes from.
Speaker B:Where it's like.
Speaker B:In terms of, like, everyday people are, you know, getting intimate with each other, and it's.
Speaker B:It's a part of, like, you know, life.
Speaker B:That's what happens with adults and, you know, humans.
Speaker B:We just wanted to show it from a point of view that had, like, you know, happiness there.
Speaker B:There was hope, there's tragedy, all the above.
Speaker B:Not just this one single thing of, like, trauma that you normally see.
Speaker B:And I know everyone talks about.
Speaker B:About black trauma.
Speaker B:I know it's needed.
Speaker B:I think that we should have stories that tell, like, a plethora of things, but we just wanted to add something else to it which was a little bit human, a little bit of fun.
Speaker B:I'm not entirely sure if people, like, understood the tone, what we're going for.
Speaker B:They probably thought we were taking the piss, as we say in England, which are taking the mick.
Speaker B:But we wanted.
Speaker B:We wanted to kind of show that.
Speaker B:That element there, that, okay, not everything that you deem as okay about a guy who's struggling with his sexuality or shame.
Speaker B:It's not exactly.
Speaker B:He's not this character that is, like, downtrodden.
Speaker B:He's actually quite smart and intellectual, and he knows exactly what this is.
Speaker B:And then there's this inner reverse that puts it on to Theo, who might be this person saying, oh, I'm so fabulous, and I'm going to show you what it is like.
Speaker B:And it actually makes him question himself.
Speaker B:So we wanted to explore all of that in there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's very real.
Speaker A:I feel like there are folks who are struggling with their sexuality because of how society talks about queer people and talks about if you're black and you're queer, and that is not all on the person who's having that experience.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I feel like sometimes we have those conversations in a very black and white way.
Speaker A:But there are lots of shades of gray.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:People have different reasons why they show up in the way that they do.
Speaker A:From, like, maybe growing up very religious or just, you know, growing up in an environment that will not condone any form of queerness at all.
Speaker A:And so making room for people.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying that because I know, you know, not being able to leave yourself can lead to some harmful behavior.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:It will come out otherwise, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It could stress a lot of ways, but we need to have a wider conversation instead of a micro one, like, okay, what is going on in our society that makes people feel like they can't really show up in a way that is authentic to themselves, you know?
Speaker A:And I think that's what.
Speaker A:What I actually do.
Speaker A:Like, like you said in the film, there are no heroes or villains.
Speaker A:It's just two people from different experiences hooking up, you know, and that's it.
Speaker A:Like, what does that.
Speaker A:How do they show up based on those experiences?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's really.
Speaker A:It's a really.
Speaker A:It's a really great short film.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like I have seen a lot of black queer stories and I feel like this one really, like, made me, like, stop and think for a bit.
Speaker A:So, you know, thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you, Ari.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:I have a curiosity, though, about, like.
Speaker A:Because I know that there are lots of people who are trying to, like, make it in the industry, and a lot of folks who are queer who are acting sometimes always feel like, I don't want to be known as the person that only does.
Speaker A:I don't want to be the black gay actor or the black queer actor type cast.
Speaker A:How do you approach that?
Speaker A:I mean, I'm sure you've done a couple of projects where this is like a project that is taking you across the world.
Speaker A:So it can be very career defining.
Speaker A:So how do you.
Speaker A:What do you think about that, basically?
Speaker A:Is it that.
Speaker A:Do you not mind that?
Speaker A:Are you open to how people perceive you to be?
Speaker B:It's such a complex one because in a way it's going back off what you're saying.
Speaker B:It's like, okay, show yourself.
Speaker B:Write about yourself.
Speaker B:Write about your experiences.
Speaker B:And you do that.
Speaker B:But then it's really hard because then you're going into the industry that wants you to sort of like, be vulnerable and be yourself.
Speaker B:But then, you know that that can also put you into a box that you know, especially for when talking about, like, queer, gay or black roles, the parameters of what that can be can be quite limiting and how that looks and also can be not necessarily provide the nuance that it has in your own sort of work.
Speaker B:So I think how we've sort of looked at that is kind of having really good conversations with sort of like your team, again, sort of like pivoting in different ways.
Speaker B:You can concrete.
Speaker B:You can create nuanced work, different stories, just being slightly.
Speaker B:A little bit more maybe like mindful of sort of like maybe what projects you are attaching yourself to.
Speaker B:But again, people have to eat, people have to work.
Speaker B:I understand that.
Speaker B:I think it's just a conversation and just looking at, like, where you want this to go, like what you want to do and how.
Speaker B:Where you are in your career as well.
Speaker B:It's a conversation that's always changing.
Speaker B:I don't think it's this one set thing, but in terms of myself, I think it's just.
Speaker B:I've really had the ability to, you know, speak to kind of like, you know, like, reps or people who are, like, dealing, like, with my work and stuff, and.
Speaker B:And we have, like, thoughtful conversations and say, hey, by the way, like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm forever changing.
Speaker B:Like, this is what I've done.
Speaker B:But then I also can do other things as well.
Speaker B:And it's going back to what we said at the first point where, you know, walking into a room and I'm like, you know, a tall Jamaican black man from Birmingham.
Speaker B:People automatically, if they don't know me, will be like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's hood or this and that or whatever it is.
Speaker B:You know, because based on those things that.
Speaker B:Where I was at that time.
Speaker B:And I think that can also be the same thing with maybe sort of like, the work I sort of.
Speaker B:I have at this moment in time where people.
Speaker B:When I step into a room and someone says, okay, he's that.
Speaker B:But then it just hits a little bit on me and also on the team to just package that and say, also.
Speaker B:It's not just that.
Speaker B:And this is my interpretation of this role.
Speaker B:I don't need to kind of do this sort of, like the archetype or even, like, stereotype I've put out to you.
Speaker B:I can also defy that as well.
Speaker B:And if they don't like it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:It is what it is.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:On that side.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's pretty cool.
Speaker A:Do you have, like, any other things you're working on?
Speaker A:Any, like, projects that maybe you are writing or directing or act or stuff you're just gonna be, like, just acting in?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there's.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's some.
Speaker B:There's some good projects that I've got.
Speaker B:One that I'm kind of excited about that was sort of shooting now, which is really good.
Speaker B:So that's a feature in terms of, like, man code.
Speaker B:There's obviously been conversations to kind of, like, expand it.
Speaker B:It's kind of the same world, but there's a slightly different sort of spin and tone on it, which is quite interesting.
Speaker B:It will still hopefully, you know, appeal to exactly like, what.
Speaker B:It made this one special, but it just expands the story slightly a little bit more, and I'm kind of excited about that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then in terms of, like, our next project, We've got Speechless coming out, which I think that project is going to be interesting because it's one that I'm sort of like, I'm directing while we're co directing with Adrian as well.
Speaker B:So that'd be really good.
Speaker B:But it's looking at being single.
Speaker B:A wedding, wedding receptions and the aunts and uncles who question you on that, but through humor.
Speaker B:And it's a very.
Speaker B:There's a bit of a twist on it, but I think it will hopefully appeal to a lot of, let's just say a lot of single people, a lot of like men, a lot of queer men who go to the weddings and they got, you know, so how come, how can we find someone for you and the talks and you're gearing yourself up to enter that space where, you know, there's not a lot of.
Speaker B:There is, there's.
Speaker B:It's so familiar, but it's unfamiliar.
Speaker B:So it's uncanny.
Speaker B:And there's not a lot of.
Speaker B:You feel safe, but there's not a lot of safety.
Speaker B:You know, that's, that's what we're kind of working on there.
Speaker B:So that'd be really good.
Speaker B:So we just signed pre production on that, another show.
Speaker B:So, yeah, and there's a few other ideas that we've got spinning around.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's exciting stuff, I think.
Speaker B:Really, really exciting things that are going on.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that, that is really cool.
Speaker A:I'm really excited to see Speechless because, you know, I am, you know, I don't want to age myself, but I'm like 36 and you know, you're not looking.
Speaker B:You look good, man.
Speaker B:You look good.
Speaker A:36 and being single, that's like, you know, people ask you that a lot like, oh, so what's going on?
Speaker A:What's happening?
Speaker A:Why, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that, that's another really terrible story.
Speaker A:So I'm excited to see what that will look like for someone with like, there is a perception with like immigrant back black families or in your case, like people from the, from Africa, Caribbean, who are navigating like queerness and like, you know, it's like, oh, this consensus is like, oh, this is a very homophobic culture and people in this community don't really like the gays and the queers and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:How have you been able to navigate just growing up in that sort of setting?
Speaker A:And, and is that your reality?
Speaker A:Because it's not everybody's reality too, as well.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:It's not everyone's.
Speaker B:It's not everyone's reality, but it's just also that your reality might be safe.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:But then if you then take that out to, like, a different, you know, community or different subsect of that, then it becomes completely different.
Speaker B:And like, not everyone is like the same thing.
Speaker B:It's not like a monolith in terms of different families and cultures.
Speaker B:And whether you're Seven Day Adventist, the Pentecostal to this, it's completely different.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But in terms of navigating that, I think the question that we wanted to propose is, like, where are then all, like, you know, what happens to the queer elders?
Speaker B:Because the queer elders, because they're there, you know, but sometimes that visibility isn't sort of given.
Speaker B:So if you don't really know where you're going or what the end point is, then, like, what.
Speaker B:Where do you sort of stand?
Speaker B:So I think it's.
Speaker B:It's really just about sort of like showing that and then showing that.
Speaker B:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:That is.
Speaker B:Is life, like, through this, there is kind of happiness at the end of it.
Speaker B:And I think that's really, like, what I sort of.
Speaker B:I've had to sort of navigate in terms of, like, you know, in various things, whether I do take sort of, like, you know, sexuality out of it.
Speaker B:It's like, no, there is ways within this that I can thrive in certain circles or doing this or doing that.
Speaker B:But I think to people who might not necessarily know that, and there's a lot of trauma.
Speaker B:There's a lot of, like, kind of training on new waters.
Speaker B:I would say there is this kind of, like, visceral protection that kicks in that's like, oh, no, don't do that because.
Speaker B:Or don't be like this, or straighten up, sit down, do this, do that, because you want the best chance at survival and the best chance of happiness.
Speaker B:But then what you realize is that, like, happiness does also exist outside of the normative things that.
Speaker B:That maybe people see.
Speaker B:So I think it's kind of.
Speaker B:I can't explain this in, like.
Speaker B:In terms of, like, a reception or like, one day I'll be like, yo, this is the thing.
Speaker B:Because it's just like, they'll be like, oh, you annoying me now.
Speaker B:But I think it's really showing them that.
Speaker B:That there is, like, other ways to kind of live life.
Speaker B:They are just as valid and as equal.
Speaker B:And I think that's what you've got to do.
Speaker B:You've got to be unapologetic about that.
Speaker B:And it's scary because it is Lonely sometimes, but I think once people see you, I don't know, like, thriving and just doing your thing and obviously just being human, like, it's not.
Speaker B:Everything's going to be great, but I think it eases people and they start to say, okay, cool, well, maybe it isn't so so much like this, and maybe we can do that.
Speaker B:I think it's about visibility and that's great.
Speaker B:And I think that's why there needs to be more.
Speaker B:More of it.
Speaker B:More ways to think, more ways to, like, do things and more dissent.
Speaker B:More the challenging of things.
Speaker B:I think that's great.
Speaker B:Also being respectful as well, because people are cussing, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And speaking of visibility and also adding that to representation, how do you think that.
Speaker A:How would you gauge visibility and representation comes to, like, blackwear stories in, like, the British film and arts industry?
Speaker B:No, they are there.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're there.
Speaker B:Like, they.
Speaker B:They've been there.
Speaker B:Whether or not, you know, a lot of the stories get the amount of success or visibility that, you know, certain other stories get because of whether it's marketing, whether it's, you know, talent that's attached, whether it can sell.
Speaker B:Like, there's various different reasons as to why it's like, things that I think this is a thing because now I feel like now it's.
Speaker B:It's getting, like, more not safe, but there's more visibility there.
Speaker B:So in by default, it becomes safer.
Speaker B:But I think there's a long history that, like, this work has been shown.
Speaker B:But, you know, there comes a time in every, like, five years where, I don't know, some company or institution says, oh, this is like queer films.
Speaker B:And it's just like, things you've never even seen before, but they've been in some sort of archive.
Speaker B:So they definitely are there.
Speaker B:And I think it is getting better.
Speaker B:But sometimes then what gets scary about that is it's about like, okay, what's the intention behind it?
Speaker B:Because we can slap, like, you know, black characters or, you know, characters in certain situations, but if they aren't fully fledged out, there's no nuance.
Speaker B:And if they're just fallen by the wayside, it doesn't really serve anyone.
Speaker B:And then people sort of like, get a bit apprehensive to tell a story again because they're like, oh, well, that one didn't do that good.
Speaker B:Or this and that.
Speaker B:So I'm always firm believer of having people behind the scenes, writing, creating, who kind of understand that background.
Speaker B:Hopefully they are from the background.
Speaker B:But as long as it's they're understanding that background and they understand what story they're trying to tell.
Speaker B:Tell rather than just being like, okay, there's visibility there, but there's no nuance.
Speaker B:There's no kind of care with the stories.
Speaker B:There's no.
Speaker B:It's just to kind of tick a box and say, oh, this is great.
Speaker B:This is visible.
Speaker B:This is on trend.
Speaker B:Because then once that trend goes away, then what happens?
Speaker B:It's like we're then back to the drawing board and then you're working twice as hard, you know, to try and get you just these.
Speaker B:I think it's great.
Speaker B:I know that's a bit of a negative one.
Speaker B:I think it's really good visibility is there.
Speaker B:But I sometimes am very apprehensive when there is this sort of like, real visible.
Speaker B:Like, we need this, we need this, we need this.
Speaker B:And I'm like, but it's already been there.
Speaker B:So, like, nurture that, Build on this, build on that.
Speaker B:Because sometimes it feels a little bit.
Speaker B:Feels a bit like a fad.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's a bit strange and it feels icky because then you're in the room, you're trying to tell all these things.
Speaker B:It also is then questioning maybe people's perception of what they originally wanted anyway.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker B:It's difficult.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think it's.
Speaker B:Answer your question.
Speaker B:I'm happy that it's.
Speaker B:People are having these conversations.
Speaker B:And I think it's also looking at like, what's going on in your community.
Speaker B:There's always people doing stuff, and it's always good to like, you know, network across and really building those people because, you know, they'll go on to do whatever it is, and then it carries on from that.
Speaker A:So, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you on that one.
Speaker A:I guess there's visibility, but how do we make the visibility consistent?
Speaker A:How do we make representation consistent?
Speaker A:And how do we platform, like the folks in the community, actual folks in the community telling the stories.
Speaker A:And I like queerness from, like, black, you know, straight man's perspective.
Speaker A:Straight.
Speaker B:It's crazy because ego is a real thing.
Speaker B:And it's just a bit like, yeah, I talk a lot.
Speaker B:So it's a bit like I.
Speaker B:To go into a room and then be like, okay, but you're questioning.
Speaker B:Okay, you want to question people, but then you also want to.
Speaker B:You want people to also have a.
Speaker B:Engage in a conversation and see things from different perspectives.
Speaker B:Not saying that my perspective is right or yours is, but just having the ability to.
Speaker B:To question that and like, who is this?
Speaker B:Who is this for?
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Or like, what does it serve?
Speaker B:Because automatically putting like, you know, marginalized people or people with hardly any visibility on screen, you're going, it's going to be politicized anyway.
Speaker B:I would love to get to the day where it's not.
Speaker B:And they're just stories, but, like, this happens.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker B:So it's a bit like it's that question of do I want us to tell our stories?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:But do I also want our stories to be told?
Speaker B:Of course, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so it's like, it's.
Speaker B:It's really a conversation that's just.
Speaker B:You have to just keep moving, keep maneuvering it and just be quite like intentional with what's going on.
Speaker B:But yeah, I don't.
Speaker B:I think at the moment in time, I think it just needs to be more of it.
Speaker B:And also it's not just talent, it's also just people creating it, writing it, you know, like there all through every department.
Speaker B:Just like, you know, making.
Speaker B:Making it work.
Speaker B:I think that's the main thing there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Would you ever do music again, in terms of music?
Speaker B:So I would like, when it comes to music, I'm like, I used to basically like, run a load of like, music, like event, like nightclub nights.
Speaker B:I don't know as well, like, if that was also a part of like, in terms of like having something that was like, queer.
Speaker B:Because obviously a lot of house music and lot music was played is obviously from like black women in, you know, the States.
Speaker B:So kind of seeing that visibility there, I don't know if that lent into something that I'm doing, like right now or like what it was.
Speaker B:I think, yeah, I'm.
Speaker B:I am still into music.
Speaker B:I still collect a lot.
Speaker B:Like, I've got a load of vinyls like all over there, like scattered around.
Speaker B:But yeah, I would say I'm still an avid fan of music.
Speaker B:I still find influence through music.
Speaker B:And it's still.
Speaker B:Even when I'm like writing some things, I know it sounds a little bit like.
Speaker B:But certain songs make you feel certain types of way.
Speaker B:And I feel like that's what sometimes helps me push ideas forward.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I love music.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:Like I listen to music every single day, I think.
Speaker B:Every single day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Maybe this is a good time to pivot to our rapid fire questions then.
Speaker B:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The first one is like one of the top three songs on your playlist, like right now.
Speaker B:Top three songs.
Speaker B:Top.
Speaker B:Top three songs.
Speaker B:I think in terms of My top three songs.
Speaker B:What was I listening to today?
Speaker B:So there's Tanya Stevens, Goggle.
Speaker B:That is a real life.
Speaker B:It's just great.
Speaker B:She's a real kind of like dance or Caribbean artist.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I know it's something to kind of get down to, which is good.
Speaker B:Another song that I have is I obviously like it a lot of electronic music.
Speaker B:So there's a song called York, Big Brother's watching you.
Speaker B:It's kind of like a really chancey song.
Speaker B:A real.
Speaker B:When I listen to certain songs, I'm like, this feels like really end of film or like something's happening.
Speaker B:And that song right there, in terms of like how it's like building and like what it does is amazing.
Speaker B:And there's another song from one of my favorite.
Speaker B:One of my favorite films called Baghdad Cafe.
Speaker B:Because it's just a bit of a weird film.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Spy.
Speaker B:Is it Percy Adnan or Aldon Javetta?
Speaker B:Still, I'm calling you.
Speaker B:It's just beautiful.
Speaker B:I just love the song.
Speaker B:I was actually at a bar in southeast London and I was this dj and he was playing all these tracks like Roll Up Blues, R and B.
Speaker B:And he was playing that song.
Speaker B:And I went up to him, I said, yeah, this song is great.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:This is before I even saw the film.
Speaker B:And he handed me the vinyl.
Speaker B:I think I've got it somewhere.
Speaker B:Which is like the Baghdad Cafe.
Speaker B:And it's just like that memory right there is just solidified, like why I like that song.
Speaker B:And then I then went on to watch the film and I thought the film was a bit very crazy, but I really did like it, so.
Speaker B:And then my free song.
Speaker B:So Tanya Stevens, Goggle York, Big Brothers watching you and yeah, Javette still Baghdad Cafe, I'm calling you.
Speaker B:Yeah, amazing.
Speaker B:Them are three.
Speaker A:Okay, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker A:I'm not here to know these songs.
Speaker A:I'm gonna have to go check them out for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Definitely this.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's something for everyone.
Speaker B:There's like, you know, there's the slow burner ballads, there's the real kind of like dance or things.
Speaker B:And there's something that's sort of like a bit more trancy and like ambient in there.
Speaker B:So that's good.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:What are, what are your top three movies of all time?
Speaker B:Uh huh.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:This question always like bugs me because everyone's like, what are your top movies?
Speaker B:I feel like I watch so much and I watch so much movies that also I like the real Head because I've been to a few film festivals and it's just a bit like.
Speaker B:I like seeing, like, the.
Speaker B:The avant garde art experimental, you know, niche with a twist.
Speaker B: like, the Stepford Wives from: Speaker B:Like, something that's just really, like, you know, just a bit, like, garish and sometimes a little bit camp.
Speaker B:But in terms of the films that I'm.
Speaker B:That I like.
Speaker B:So I think I filmed that.
Speaker B:I probably would say, like, I was.
Speaker B:I remember having it on, like, my dad had it on video, which was Spike Lee's Crooklyn.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've watched it, but really fun, really good.
Speaker B:Very, very bright.
Speaker B:Just about like, kids in Brooklyn and like, they, you know, they're that mom, dad, and just all that goes on life.
Speaker B:Really, really cool film.
Speaker B:Also very emotional, but really good, really fun.
Speaker B:I also like.
Speaker B:In terms of another film, I like Ninja Thiberg's Pleasure.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've watched it, but it's basically about.
Speaker B:It's obviously about, like, sex work and, like, adult work, but it's also about what happens when you want to get into.
Speaker B:You try so hard to get into a room, and when you get into that room, you no longer want to be there and you see it for what it is.
Speaker B:And I feel like a lot of people can kind of like, relate to that.
Speaker B:Not necessarily like, you know, the sex work or anything like that, but in terms of wanting so hard to be something that when you finally get there, you sacrifice everything that made you kind of like an actual.
Speaker B:Kind of like, functioning like, person with empathy and emotion.
Speaker B:And I feel like a lot of the times in life, like, that can happen, especially when you're trying to go for something that is so.
Speaker B:So kind of up there or so, like, you know, like, wow.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's part of a pedestal, you know, that once you finally get up there, you're like, oh, this view and that.
Speaker B:That nice.
Speaker B:It's kind of that.
Speaker B:And I love that film.
Speaker B:And obviously everything they talked about within that industry as well.
Speaker B:And then I think the.
Speaker B:The last film I have is just a film I also watched.
Speaker B:Watched from childhood, which was Steven Spielberg's artificial intelligence.
Speaker B:It's just kind of very telling of this time where we're looking at artificial intelligence and like, what is, like, love and obviously, like, family structures and, you know, if we create things and then once you no longer need it, we discard them, what happens to those.
Speaker B:Those things that we've created, that we've poured into.
Speaker B:And I just like it.
Speaker B:It's kind of like a modern retelling of like a fairy tale, but kind of bittersweet as well.
Speaker B:I feel like all those films are very, like, bittersweet and kind of sort of like telling you something, but in a way, kind of not.
Speaker B:It's just like.
Speaker B:It's just life, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, I like this one.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that these, like, your.
Speaker A:Your selections are kind of like, getting us into, like, a peak of, like, your mind.
Speaker A:So I appreciate that.
Speaker A:I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker A:Who are the three artists you hope to collaborate with?
Speaker A:It could be singers, actors, visual artists, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:So people's working who I like, who I get really excited about, even though I'm like, they could create anything.
Speaker B:I'm like, yes.
Speaker B:Like, come on.
Speaker B:I think at the moment in time, I'm.
Speaker B:Watch.
Speaker B:I love Beats Riley.
Speaker B:Beats Riley.
Speaker B:Amazing director.
Speaker B:Really cool in terms of, like, the music and his creation and how he, like, kind of puts together pieces.
Speaker B:Like, I really like that.
Speaker B:I like how he kind of like, you know, composes his films.
Speaker B:Sebastian Silva, I just like a lot of their humor, especially around kind of like, queerness and like, you know, gay shit.
Speaker B:I think it's quite funny and how he does all of that.
Speaker B:And then also like, embed some, like, real, like, kind of lessons learned in there.
Speaker B:And then in terms of, like, I think just someone who I've, like, probably, like, watched a lot of growing up was probably like, Ben Wheatley, just the kind of, like, British, like, very, like, black humor, dark humor, comedy.
Speaker B:And I think all those directors where it's like, boots like Sebastian and like, like Ben Wheatley, they all have this humor.
Speaker B:They take real life situations and spin them on the head.
Speaker B:And I thought that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:And then add, like, you know, like a bit of my little twist on it.
Speaker B:I don't know, like, whatever that would be.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:That's what I would like to do.
Speaker A:Okay, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker A:It could happen.
Speaker A:Never say never.
Speaker A:Never say never.
Speaker A:What is your guilty pleasure?
Speaker A:I always ask everybody that comes out because I'm always very curious.
Speaker B:My guilty pleasure is.
Speaker B:That's always.
Speaker B:So I would say something basically arts food, but I feel like that's just like, something.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:My guilty pleasure is like collecting music.
Speaker B:But my guilty pleasure, honestly, is I've started collecting a lot of plants, Collecting a load of plants.
Speaker B:And I'm treating them very, very well.
Speaker B:I would say so in terms of like getting all the stuff for it, but there's a couple of plants that like, I kind of keep in the bathroom and I sort of like, you know, when I'm, when I'm showering, they come into the bathroom, they shower with me.
Speaker B:They don't actually.
Speaker B:They're not in like the kind of thing, but like, that is my go to pleasure.
Speaker B:I don't know how much I'm sharing right there just to kind of get them humid, you know, and that type of thing.
Speaker B:But they're doing well, so I can't, I can't really like knock that.
Speaker B:But I think, yeah, sometimes showering with my, with my plants is probably like a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:I mean, that's fair.
Speaker A:I hear that.
Speaker A:I hear, I hear it's good to have the eucalyptus plant in your shower.
Speaker A:I don't know how I've never, you know, done.
Speaker A:Oh, oh.
Speaker A:Do you confirm?
Speaker B:Not eucalyptus?
Speaker B:I don't have a eucalyptus.
Speaker B:We've got a Monstera, which is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's variegated, which is really good.
Speaker B:And then I've grown, especially in the uk, a soursop.
Speaker B:I think it's a Graviola or something like that.
Speaker B:But still really well, I'm happy.
Speaker B:So I can hopefully make teen without a leave soon.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing.
Speaker B:Collecting records, eating food and growing plants and writing.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's what I've been doing and, you know, checking into therapy now and then.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the main thing.
Speaker A:Shout out to that.
Speaker A:And speaking of food, what's your go to?
Speaker A:Comfort food?
Speaker B:My go to comfort food?
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker B:So a fish dish?
Speaker B:I'm not necessarily Pescastarian per se, but I could be.
Speaker B:But I kind of like, I like, I love a lot of seafood.
Speaker B:That's like my, my go to.
Speaker B:Yeah, a bit pasta.
Speaker B:Yeah, the seafood there, like prawns, like it's good.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker B:What about you?
Speaker B:What's your go to?
Speaker A:I, I want to be very cliche and say I like Jollof rice because.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:Nigerian.
Speaker B:Nigerian.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's, that's, that's true.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:You said.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, if I had to like talk about one from the Caribbean, it'd probably be Aki and Saltbish, something.
Speaker B:That is definitely my, my sort of thing.
Speaker B:But them cans are a bit expensive these days, so.
Speaker B:Like I'm just having to, to.
Speaker B:To wait and just deal with other stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, probably say seafood and then make yaki and saltish.
Speaker B:That would be the best thing, but yeah.
Speaker B:What part of, like, Nigeria do you people come from?
Speaker B:Like what, Yoda, but Igbo?
Speaker B:Hausa.
Speaker A:So I am, I am a Robo and a Shaqiri.
Speaker A:My dad is a Robo, my mom is a Shaqiri.
Speaker A:It's like the smaller tribe, the Magdalenta region.
Speaker A:I do like to lead with Amish Shaqiri.
Speaker A:Apologies, dad.
Speaker A:Because I feel like.
Speaker A:I feel like it only makes sense to take your mother's.
Speaker A:Your mother's tribe should be your primary tribe.
Speaker A:That's like.
Speaker A:Okay, that's my theory.
Speaker A:And actually the name of this podcast is actually Anisha Kiri Word Odej man.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So hey.
Speaker B:Yeah, if you like it, I love it.
Speaker B:If you like it, I love it.
Speaker B:That's, that's great.
Speaker B:So it's fine.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I was, I was born and raised in Lagos.
Speaker A:I lived in Lagos all my life.
Speaker A:So technically I'm also from Lagos because like, you know, that is the city that raised me and the culture that I, I move through the world with.
Speaker B:Yeah, of course.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:You were at the prime of your career, of your work.
Speaker A:When people engage with your art, with your work, what do you want them to leave with when they do that?
Speaker B:You know what, just a conversation or some sort of release, whether that's with humor, whether that's from being seen, but that's a tear, I don't know.
Speaker B:But I think it's just some sort of like, reaction.
Speaker B:Hopefully it's a good reaction.
Speaker B:But yeah, just, I think just a little bit of humor, a little bit of like a.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:And questioning things.
Speaker B:I, I think that's the main thing.
Speaker B:I think I want people to, to start conversations and to question like, you know, like certain things, whether it's identity, how they move to the world or how they really see themselves.
Speaker B:But I just want also be.
Speaker B:To have a good time and just to, to laugh and also to be shocked by different things that they, they encounter within the work as well.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's, that's what I would like you to live with.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Pretty cool.
Speaker A:Pretty cool.
Speaker A:I'm gonna see you do some work in the United States.
Speaker A:I know there's a lot of crossover.
Speaker B:There is, there is a lot.
Speaker B:There is a lot of crossover.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker B:Time.
Speaker B:Time will tell.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think is.
Speaker B:It would be on, on the cards.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think I just want to probably just focus on sort of like telling sort of like black British stories at this current time.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, hopefully if people like it over there, then, you know, the.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:To sort of like, you know, export that.
Speaker B:But yeah, we'll.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:We'll see what happens and see what happens.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thank you, Ryan, for coming and for sharing and for letting us know you a little bit more.
Speaker A:I'll know your work a little bit more.
Speaker A:And we're excited about the new iteration of Man Code, what it would evolve to be like.
Speaker A:Fingers are crossed.
Speaker A:And we're looking forward to seeing Speechless.
Speaker A:And maybe when that happens, we can have you again to come talk about that.
Speaker B:I would love it.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:That'd be great.
Speaker A:Yeah, no problem.
Speaker A:And if you've been watching or listening.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Very appreciative.
Speaker A:Don't forget to check out Ryan.
Speaker A:I'll put the link to Man Code in the description.
Speaker A:In the description so you can check that out.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:And Odejuma.
