Anthony Adu on Being Queer, African, and Finding His Voice
In this episode of Odejuma, Harry chats with Ghanaian-born actor Anthony Adu for a deeply reflective conversation about identity, queerness, and the power of storytelling. Anthony shares his experiences, from his early days in Ghana to building a life in the U.S. He opens up about navigating family expectations, cultural displacement, his career as an actor, and the emotional journey of embracing his truth as a queer African man.
Using his role in the world premiere of "When We Are Found," he discusses how performance can serve as a vessel for personal revelation and collective memory. Together, they explore the importance of authentic representation in the arts, the solidarity found within the Black diaspora, and why sharing our stories — raw, joyful, and complicated — is an act of resistance and love.
For anyone who believes in the transformative power of storytelling, this episode serves as a heartfelt reminder that our voices matter and that queerness and Africanness can coexist beautifully.
Transcript
Hi, my name is Harry, and welcome to Odejuma.
Speaker A:Odejuma recognizes the magic of storytelling.
Speaker A:From personal experiences to stories of adventure, from tales of resilience to finding joy in the simple things, this story seeks to inspire, entertain, and educate because there is power in the stories of everyday people.
Speaker A:And these stories are worth telling.
Speaker A:Hey, y' all, how's it going?
Speaker A:Welcome to another episode of Odajuma.
Speaker A:I'm so excited about today's show because I have a very fantastic guest with me.
Speaker A:He's an actor and he's also African, so, you know, I love my Africans.
Speaker A:Hey, Anthony, how you doing today?
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:Hi, Harry.
Speaker B:I am good.
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:I am awake.
Speaker B:It's early.
Speaker A:I appreciate.
Speaker A:I appreciate you doing this with me, though.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I appreciate your time because I know you're currently in the middle of your play, but you took out the time to come on the podcast.
Speaker A:I'm really excited.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:No, it was a pleasure of mine to come on this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And a little backstory I went to see when we were found at Penumbra Theater, and that's how I discovered Anthony, because it's like a two person show and he's on.
Speaker A:You know, he plays one of.
Speaker A:He plays multiple characters on the show, but you have to go see the play to know that I'm like, this person sounds way too African to just be playing an African character.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, so you connect that and yeah, I'm really excited to get to dive into this conversation and get to know you a little bit better.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:Honestly, it actually makes me so happy to hear you say that because, like, my goal always is, like, when I'm playing African on stage is to, like, be as authentic as possible.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, really go there.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:We need that authenticity, you know, from folks who are going to be embodying our characterizations and stuff.
Speaker A:You know, I love that right now the Black diaspora in general is trying to be more inclusive of all the stories of the diaspora.
Speaker A:So we're telling Caribbean stories, African stories, African American stories, Black British stories.
Speaker A:So everything is being told and being shared.
Speaker A:And I really kind of like that.
Speaker A:I mean, this new artistic renaissance that we are in.
Speaker A:So I love that.
Speaker A:But you were raised in Ghana, you know, born and raised in Ghana, and now you live in la.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker A:How's that journey been for you coming from, you know, West African country to, you know, living in the west, in court and.
Speaker A:Yeah, what does that look like?
Speaker A:And Being an actor and chasing your acting dream in this country also.
Speaker A:Has that process been for you?
Speaker B:It's been a journey, to say the least.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes you just, like, you're living your life day today, and then you don't think about, like, the way that you.
Speaker B:You started versus where you are now.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I feel like my life has been like a movie in a way.
Speaker B:Like, so, yeah, I was born and raised in Ghana.
Speaker B:Like, lived there my whole life.
Speaker B:My dad left when I was, like, about 3 years old for America, but I have an older brother, and I lived with my mom and, you know, my aunts and uncles and all them in Ghana.
Speaker B:And, yeah, grew up there.
Speaker B:Had my whole life there.
Speaker B:Never thought about America as, like, a place that I exactly wanted to be or anything.
Speaker B:People travel all the time, but never thought about it until.
Speaker B: my older brother to the US in: Speaker B:So I ended up actually doing, you know, a part of my growing up in Aurora.
Speaker B:I went to middle school, like, one year of middle school there.
Speaker B:I went to high school in Aurora.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:That change in culture was a little bit shocking because, you know, I grew up my entire life around Ghanaians, like, speaking.
Speaker B:And it's so funny, when I first got here, people were like, you speak English so good.
Speaker A:You know, I get that a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm sure you do, because it's like, they're like, wait, just because you're African doesn't.
Speaker B:Doesn't mean I don't speak English.
Speaker B:What do you mean?
Speaker B:English is, like, our national language.
Speaker A:Yeah, we were colonized.
Speaker B:Yeah, we were colonized.
Speaker B:No, so, yeah, so, like, you know, that part of it, the language part was whatever, but, like, it was really, like, people sort of seeing me as, like, a different person, which I had never experience in my whole life, like, being seen as different even though I was black.
Speaker B:Like, I grew up around black people, and so coming here and all of a sudden me told, you're black?
Speaker B:Was like, whoa.
Speaker B:Like, this is a.
Speaker B:A different experience.
Speaker B:So, yeah, like, a lot of.
Speaker B:I feel like I was having a lot of, like, identity crises, obviously, and.
Speaker B:And on top of being African and then.
Speaker B:Yeah, and then eventually going to college in Denver, lived at home during college and stuff.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it was through college that I sort of discovered my sexuality, which I'm sure we'll get into more.
Speaker B:And, yeah, that also became another layer of, like, difference and being, being othered, which I think, honestly, to Answer your question.
Speaker B:In a way, like, feeling othered has always been my push forward.
Speaker B:So, like, when I got here and I was told, you're other because you're black and you're African, I was like, okay, great.
Speaker B:How can I push forward to either?
Speaker B:Like, you know, initially it was like, to.
Speaker B:To immerse myself in the culture.
Speaker B:And then at some point I was like, oh, the other.
Speaker B:The other ring is actually a good thing.
Speaker B:So how do I make it my, like, superpower?
Speaker B:Honestly, my other ring led me to leaving Denver when I.
Speaker B:When I was done with college to then go to grad school in San Diego.
Speaker B:Went to grad school in San Diego, got my MFA in acting.
Speaker B:And from.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was a whole three years of crazy experience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then that.
Speaker B: eah, after I finished that in: Speaker B:I went back home to Ghana for a little bit, lived in New York for, like, a second, and then, yeah, moved to la.
Speaker B:And I have been there pursuing my career as an actor since.
Speaker B:And it's been a journey.
Speaker A:It really has been a journey from what you wouldn't have described to Colorado.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to think about, like, how you, you know, you're living a predominantly black country.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're living, you know, everybody's black in Ghana, and now you are, I believe, into color.
Speaker A:I've only been to Denver, Right.
Speaker A:So I don't have an idea of the.
Speaker A:I'm not trying to assume whether it's like, living in Colorado, but I want to assume that it's not the most.
Speaker A:It's not filled with a lot of melanin people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's not, like.
Speaker B:Funny enough, though, you know, I will say this.
Speaker B:Aurora specifically is actually very multicultural.
Speaker B:It's very, like, immigrant heavy.
Speaker B:So, like, there are a lot of Ghanaians, There are a lot of Nigerians.
Speaker B:There are a lot of, like, African people in Aurora.
Speaker B:And like, the high school that I went to, it's.
Speaker B:It's called Overland High School.
Speaker B:Overland is like the most, like, multicultural school.
Speaker B:Like, you would walk down the hallway and, like, see people for, like, from, like, Cambodia, from, like, you know, wherever in the world.
Speaker B:It was like, so multicultural.
Speaker B:So, like.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But then it's so funny later on in Denver, when I went to college in Denver, which is literally, like, miles apart, or in Denver, Denver is very white.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So it's like, even.
Speaker A:Regardless of, like, even in Aurora or in Denver, there is still.
Speaker A:It's still a difference from.
Speaker A:There's something different when you are born and raised in an African country.
Speaker A:When, like, you know, growing up in Nigeria, you see a.
Speaker A:You see a white person, you're like, oh, you know, as opposed to here, you are the one that is the O.
Speaker A:You know, where you walk through.
Speaker A:And so I still have to say that that must have been a shift already for you to navigate and then having to now be discovering who you are as a queer person through that journey.
Speaker A:So now you're not.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're in a different country.
Speaker A:You are in a, you know, white pwi, I'm guessing, and you are figuring out your sexuality.
Speaker A:What was that like?
Speaker A:I'm just trying to just, you know, conceptualize that in my mind.
Speaker A:Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, what it was like was that it was.
Speaker B:It was, like, difficult.
Speaker B:Like, it was like.
Speaker B:It was difficult.
Speaker B:Yet I think the thing.
Speaker B:One thing about me is that, like, I approach difficulty with, like, opportunity.
Speaker B:Like, I'm always like, wait, what's the.
Speaker B:What's the other side here?
Speaker B:What's the bright side here?
Speaker B:And so, like, when I first moved here, I mean, when I first moved to Colorado, like, I knew I was different because I was being told that all the time.
Speaker B:And what's funny, too, is that, like, you know, black Americans would also tell me I was different.
Speaker B:Like, would also be like, no, no, but you're African, which is, like, different from what we are.
Speaker B:And I was always like, wait, that's wild, because, like, basically, we're the same people.
Speaker B:Just your people were taken and mine stayed, you know?
Speaker B:And so I feel like even that navigating relationships with, like, black Americans when I first moved here was a little bit difficult because I grew up in the church.
Speaker B:And so, like, we.
Speaker B:We went to, like, a predominantly, like, black American church, and we had, like, an African sector in the black American church.
Speaker B:And even my relationships with those, like, church folks who were black Americans were very hard because in a way, they saw me as different.
Speaker B:And, like, I felt like I always had to sort of, like, become like them, which is.
Speaker B:Sounds so weird, but, like, I had to, like, change the way I speak a little bit.
Speaker B:I had to, like, change the way that I approached people a little bit, to sort of, like, feel like I belonged in that church.
Speaker B:So that was, like, a layer that was really difficult.
Speaker B:So then it's so funny because then one once I went to college, which was a pwi, University of Denver, remember?
Speaker B:I felt myself sort of not knowing who I was.
Speaker B:Like, I was.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not black enough for the Black people.
Speaker B:And I'm not, like, I'm not Christian enough now for the Christians.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:And now because I'm changing a lot, you know, partly because I want to and partly because, like, that's just life.
Speaker B:You change wherever you go.
Speaker B:Now all of a sudden, I'm also not African for the Africans.
Speaker B:I found myself being like, oh, I don't belong anywhere.
Speaker B:And then on top of that, I sort of started figuring out my sexuality when I was in high school and then into college.
Speaker B:Once I got into college and got into theater, it was then around a lot of queer people, a lot of gay people, a lot of lesbians, a lot of trans people.
Speaker B:All of a sudden I was like, oh, like, I'm.
Speaker B:They're actually helping me discover who I am more.
Speaker B:And what's funny is, a lot of those people were white.
Speaker B:And so I found that a lot of my friends were white because, like.
Speaker B:Like, I belonged with them because I was a gay, you know, black African man trying to discover who they were.
Speaker B:And sort of the only people who were, like, accepting me at the time were all these, like, white, queer people.
Speaker B:And so I feel like throughout my growing up, I was a bit of a shapeshifter.
Speaker B:I was always, like, shape shifting into, like, what culture I could, like, tap into that felt.
Speaker B:Felt like I could get accepted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because then once I got into college and at some point, like, eventually was like, I'm just gonna.
Speaker B:Also, can I cuss on this?
Speaker B:I don't want to cuss.
Speaker A:Feel free to be yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was like, once I discovered who, like, the fuck I am, once I started really, like, you know, just really getting into that, like, then I also felt ostracized fully from, like, my family and from, like, Africans and sometimes from black people, because it was just like, now you're gay and you're African.
Speaker B:Okay, now that's double strike there.
Speaker B:And you're in theater.
Speaker B:Triple strike, in fact.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:Go away.
Speaker B:It's not like, you know, I found myself a lot of times feeling alone.
Speaker B:Alone, sort of dejected.
Speaker B:But then once I found my people, it was sort of like they didn't look like me.
Speaker B:And so I was like, okay, great.
Speaker B:Like, let me just be with the people who accept me, even if they don't look like me.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I hope that makes sense.
Speaker B:Like, it was just like.
Speaker B:It's been like a journey like this throughout my life of, like, figuring out who I am based on where I am, based on who's going to accept me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But How.
Speaker A:How have you navigated that?
Speaker A:Because I feel like the black experience is multilayered.
Speaker A:It's multi.
Speaker A:It's nuanced based on where you were raised and how you were raised and how you showed up.
Speaker A:Even the black experience in the United States is also very nuanced in itself based on where you.
Speaker A:Where you live in the country, who you're hanging out with, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And so how has that shifted for you now after you've been here for a while, You've lived here for a while.
Speaker A:What is the.
Speaker A:I don't want to say.
Speaker A:What is the switch?
Speaker A:But how would you say, how do you navigate now?
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Because I feel like, you know, and ultimately, like, there has to be a level of solidarity and togetherness, you know, for the black diaspora, regardless of what part you come from.
Speaker A:Because our experiences navigating our blackness in a predominantly white space is going to be very similar, regardless of how we were raised on our Europe experiences, like I said, whether we're black America and Obi, or Africa and.
Speaker A:Or Caribbean or from the black British.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What is that like for you now years into living in the United States?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker B:That's a great question.
Speaker B:Because I feel like.
Speaker B:So I feel like I mentioned all of that.
Speaker B:That I feel like most of that sort of shape shifting I was doing was when I was in my youth, right when I.
Speaker B:When I was young, and I was like, I don't know what to do.
Speaker B:Once I, like, moved.
Speaker B:Once I actually finished college and moved to San Diego for grad school.
Speaker B:Grad school, once again, was like another, like, fully shifting in my life.
Speaker B:And I feel like it was in grad school that I actually really discovered who I was as a black, queer, African man.
Speaker B:Because I got to that school, and unlike my college, which was, like, very white, my.
Speaker B:My grad school, in my class, in the classes that were around me were a lot of black people.
Speaker B:Like, I all of a sudden was like, oh, my God, I found my people and a lot of black queer people also in grad school, which all of a sudden, like, I was like, it's so funny.
Speaker B:I feel like for.
Speaker B:I remember in, like, the first year, I had a lot of my.
Speaker B:My friends who I love dearly, like, sort of in subtle ways, and sometimes not so subtle ways be like, now, girl, you need to be more like yourself.
Speaker B:And I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker B:I know who I am.
Speaker B:What you mean?
Speaker B:And they were like, but, like, you're hiding.
Speaker B:Like, you're Putting on something, and, like, I don't know what it is.
Speaker B:And for a long time, I was like, I.
Speaker B:Like, I once again was like, I thought I knew who I was, and I came here, and now I'm being told I don't know who I am.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I was mad at them.
Speaker B:But they were right because, like, I feel like I was putting on.
Speaker B:I had been putting on whiteness.
Speaker B:Like, I had been putting on what it means to be, like, a white person who, like, can get accepted by a lot of people.
Speaker B:And it was in grad school that I learned, like, I can be black.
Speaker B:I can be gay, I can be African fully.
Speaker B:Like, in grad school, I started, like, sort of rediscovering my African ness and, like, really steeping myself into that, like, including my accent.
Speaker B:Like, I feel like for the longest time, I used to, like, try to sound, like, very white, you know, like, and, like, after a while, I was like, maybe let me just sound like myself and just be myself.
Speaker B:And I feel like in grad school, like, I really started actually creating relationships with other black people in a way that I had not created before.
Speaker B:And so all of a sudden, I felt like, like, the conversation, the thing you just brought up of, like, there are diasporic conversations and relationships we can have, because I was one of three, I would say, African people.
Speaker B:Like, there was almost like, an African person each year of school.
Speaker B:And I was like, no one, you know, for my year.
Speaker B:And so at first I was like, okay, that's a little hard.
Speaker B:But then I was like, oh, me and my friend Cornelius, who was in my class, he's from South Carolina.
Speaker B:And, like, in a way, we actually bond, like, in a very deep way, because he understands the African experience and I understand the African American experience.
Speaker B:And we're both queer, and we're both, like, trying to be actors.
Speaker B:And, like, I all of a sudden started finding commonalities between me and all the other black people in the program.
Speaker B:And by the end of those three years, there was no longer me putting on anything.
Speaker B:There was no longer, like, me trying to shape shift into something else.
Speaker B:Like, I feel like I fully became who I was.
Speaker B:I really became who I was.
Speaker B:Like, now I'm, like, at a place where I'm like, oh, I have no doubt of who I am as a queer African, black man.
Speaker B:Like, that's who I am.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, yeah, and through that, like, I feel like I started to understand that, like, Africans and African Americans and, like, black British people, we are all the same.
Speaker B:We just have different experiences.
Speaker B:In fact, like you said, like, black people in America, some.
Speaker B:Someone who's from Cali has.
Speaker B:Has a very different experience from somebody who's from South Carolina.
Speaker B:But maybe we're still the same, because at the end of the day, once we're in a room where we're not the majority or when we even are the majority, it's still, like, we still have to, like, create solidarity to move forward.
Speaker B:Like, we can't have these, like, interpersonal fightings because, like, oh, you have this experience, and you have this experience.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:No, like, what's beautiful about us as black people is that, like, we are multicultural.
Speaker B:Like, we have so much layers to our living that, like, the only way we can actually, like, move forward is by, like, appreciating those layers and coming together as a whole.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And I fully believe in that.
Speaker B:I fully believe in that with, like, my 10 toes.
Speaker A:We're going to have to take you back a little bit because I'm very fascinated by your journey as someone who your.
Speaker A:Your life has made a journey of discovery right from.
Speaker A:You've shared.
Speaker A:But at what point did you realize that storytelling was a thing for you wanted to tell stories?
Speaker A:And when did you also realize that acting was going to be your medium for telling those stories?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I feel like, you know, I feel like I've always been a storyteller.
Speaker B:Kind of like Africans, maybe we tell stories like, you know, growing up, like, you know, your aunts would come to the house and be like, oh, you know, like.
Speaker B:And start, like, going on and on about something, and you're like, okay, like, auntie, what happened?
Speaker B:And so I feel like it's always been in my bones.
Speaker B:My mother is, like, the most, like, juicy storyteller that I feel like.
Speaker B:I know, but I really didn't discover that it was something I wanted to do until high school.
Speaker B:I used to do speech and debate in high school, and I used to do, like, the speech side of speech and debate, which is, like, actually a lot about, like, telling speeches and telling stories.
Speaker B:Like, there's these.
Speaker B:These events called interpretation.
Speaker B:So, like, you do, like, dramatic interpretation or a comedic interpretation or duo, which is, like, two people where you can't look at each other and you can't touch.
Speaker B:It's, like, very funny.
Speaker B:And I used to do that's.
Speaker B:I did that throughout my entire high school experience.
Speaker B:And I was very good at it.
Speaker B:I was very good at it.
Speaker B:I, like, went to Nationals, like, all the.
Speaker B:All that.
Speaker B:All those things.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And throughout that whole time in my mind, like, also a conversation I had with my dad at the time.
Speaker B:He was like, you can either be a lawyer, a doctor, or engineer.
Speaker A:You know, that's surreal.
Speaker A:That is surreal.
Speaker B:You know, like, nothing else.
Speaker B:Maybe pharmacist.
Speaker B:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's like, that's it.
Speaker B:So I was like, okay, fine, I guess I'll be an engineer.
Speaker B:And then when I was a junior in high school, I love telling the story when I was a junior in high school.
Speaker B:So speech judges would, like, write on, like, little notes and, like, give you comments and stuff.
Speaker B:And one speech judge wrote on my ballot, she wrote, anthony should be on Broadway with his own show.
Speaker B:Like, and.
Speaker B:And then we're like, excellent job.
Speaker B:But at the bottom of that, it was like, anthony should be on Broadway with his own show.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I was like, what's Broadway?
Speaker B:I grew up in an African household.
Speaker B:That was not a part of our language.
Speaker B:Like, being.
Speaker B:Even being an artist, like, was so not a thing.
Speaker B:So I was like, okay.
Speaker B:Until I, like, I remember I, like, went home to, like, my big desktop computer.
Speaker B:Like, went and, like, started searching, and I was like, what's Broadway?
Speaker B:And, like, started, like, looking.
Speaker B:And literally over a weekend, literally over a weekend, I, like, watched so many videos.
Speaker B:I was, like, watching all these YouTube videos and stuff.
Speaker B:And I came back to school the next Monday and, like, told one of my best friends at a time, we're no longer friends for this reason.
Speaker B:We're no longer friends.
Speaker B:I told him at the time, I was like, my God, I'm gonna be on Broadway.
Speaker B:Like, I want to be an actor.
Speaker B:I think that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:And, like, he was, like, really an actor.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker B:There's something about it.
Speaker B:And he's like, you didn't start when you were young.
Speaker B:Like, you'll never make it.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker B:It's right.
Speaker B:I was like, what the.
Speaker B:I was like, hello.
Speaker B:You could be at least encouraging.
Speaker B:And I remember I started to side eye him from then on out.
Speaker B:And then we.
Speaker B:At some point, we start being friends.
Speaker B:Because I was like, oh, you're not.
Speaker B:You are not a good person for me.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker B:Yeah, it really.
Speaker B:I mean, he really kind of was, like, laid on me about it, and I was like, okay, whatever.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And swap the rest of my junior year and my senior year, I started.
Speaker B:I took, like, one acting class when I was in high school, and I, like, loved it.
Speaker B:I loved it.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, this is really cool.
Speaker B:And it wasn't until college.
Speaker B:And I remember once I was going to college and having to convince my African father that I wanted to do acting.
Speaker A:How did I go?
Speaker A:Oh, I, like, bad, bad.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, he was like, what are you doing with your life?
Speaker B:Like, you know, like, you think you're just going to go be out there, like, you're not going to make any money.
Speaker B:Like, how are you going to take care of a family?
Speaker B:That was like, the big thing.
Speaker B:How are you going to take care of a family?
Speaker B:You know that?
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know, like, I'll figure it out, but, like, it's just something I want to do, you know, just let me be free.
Speaker B:And, like, he was like, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:Like, he literally would not let me.
Speaker B:And so he eventually, like, one of my aunts was like, you know, you can maybe study that and also maybe study something else.
Speaker B:And I was like, fine, I'll be a double major in theater and communications.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I was like, I'll do something else.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I tried to double major.
Speaker B:I ended up not double major.
Speaker B:I minored in communications, which, you know, so I got a little degree.
Speaker B:But it really wasn't until college that, like, I started full throttle.
Speaker B:Like, when I got to college, I started taking acting classes left and right, theater classes left and right.
Speaker B:Like, I started, like, auditioning for, like, you know, shows in the program, started auditioning for stuff outside of the program.
Speaker B:Like, I started auditioning professionally.
Speaker B:So then was in college that it dawned on me, like, acting and storytelling.
Speaker B:Like, and I like to.
Speaker B:I like to describe myself as a storyteller more than an actor because, like, acting is only one part of it.
Speaker B:I like to tell stories in so many different mediums.
Speaker B:And, like, yeah, it felt like theater and acting and.
Speaker B:And all that was, like, the medium that I felt like I could connect to people.
Speaker B:Like, it started with me wanting to connect with myself.
Speaker B:And then it became like, once I connected to myself, now I want to connect with other people and, like, really tell stories, to, like, just dig into parts of life that, like, you know, are hard to navigate sometimes.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's real.
Speaker B:That's how it starts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm curious, you know, about, like, what are some of the Broadway shows that you.
Speaker A:That, you know, really, like, have made an impact on you?
Speaker A:And also, what were the shows that you auditioned for?
Speaker A:What are the shows that you, like, you know, audition for, done through that process?
Speaker A:I'm just curious about that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my.
Speaker B:It's so funny.
Speaker B:When I first started, like, discovering, like, Broadway and all that, I remember there was this show called Kinky Boots.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Do you know Kinky Boots?
Speaker A:I know Kinky Boots.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's so funny like, that.
Speaker B:That's how I.
Speaker B:It started for me because, like, it's, like, the gayest show.
Speaker B:Like, you know, like, it's so, like, an African upbringing at all.
Speaker B:And I remember I discovered it because I was.
Speaker B:It's so funny.
Speaker B:Billy Porter likes to tell this story of himself that actually, like, it's so funny.
Speaker B:I sort of had a similar version of his story that happened to me because of him.
Speaker B: was, like, what, the Tonys of: Speaker B:This is when I had just first discovered Broadway, and I was, like, watching it, and I was like, wait, what is that?
Speaker B:And I saw these people performing on screen, and I was like, wait, this is wild.
Speaker B:And so I went and literally sat my ass down.
Speaker B:And then Kinky Boots came on and started playing, performing.
Speaker B:And by the end of their performance, I was gobsmacked.
Speaker B:Like, what is that?
Speaker B:I was like, what is that?
Speaker B:Like, I want to do that.
Speaker B:I want to be on stage.
Speaker B:I want to be performing.
Speaker B:Like, that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:And so I remember I, like, just got so obsessed with that show and, like, wanted to be, like, Lola and Kinky Boots so bad.
Speaker B:So, like, that was one.
Speaker B:And then, like, eventually it was, like, Wicked.
Speaker B:It was like, one that, like, you obviously, like, I became obsessed with everyone's obsessive Wicked now.
Speaker B:And, like, it was like that.
Speaker B:And it's so funny, actually, recently, I remember that one of the shows that, like, really I became touched me when I was, like, younger as well, because I also used to watch a lot of, like, bootlegs from, like, Broadway shows, and one bootleg that hit me like a ton of bricks was Next to Normal.
Speaker A:I haven't heard of that one.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a great one.
Speaker B:It's a great.
Speaker B:It's basically about, like, this family navigating a mother who is mentally ill and, like, dealing with, like, mental illness and, like.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The musical talks more about, like.
Speaker B:Like, relationships and, like, and.
Speaker B:And how drugs can.
Speaker B:Can help and hurt and, like, it's just so layered and.
Speaker B:And there's, like, a revival of it in London right now.
Speaker B:And so I just, like, remembered it.
Speaker B:I Was like, oh, whoa.
Speaker B:I remember at the time because also the other thing is, like, I've always sang my whole life, but I remember at some point I was like, musicals really aren't for me.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know, like, if I can, like, do, like, the high kick and all that.
Speaker B:You know, all that.
Speaker B:But I remember next to normal was one where I was like, oh.
Speaker B:The acting was like, the forward motion of that thing was like.
Speaker B:It was that.
Speaker B:And then the singing and everything else became, like, secondary.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh.
Speaker B:Like, that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:Like, I want to be an actor.
Speaker B:Like, I love singing, obviously, but, like, I don't want to just do, like, freely musicals.
Speaker B:Like, I want to, like, just, like, tell stories and, like, make people laugh and like, you know, all that.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it was like those three musicals and then.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then once I was in college, like, I remember I did one of my first shows I did in college was called Stage Door.
Speaker B:It's this.
Speaker B:I'm like, I hope I don't offend anyone, but it's a stupid ass.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I have to Google Stage Door now.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B: s like a play from, like, the: Speaker B:And, like, you know, it's all about all these actresses trying to make it in New York.
Speaker B:And, like, I played one of the men, the gentleman callers.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I was like, what?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:What is this?
Speaker B:I came to college to be a storyteller.
Speaker B:What is this?
Speaker B:But then I started doing, like, other stuff.
Speaker B:And, like, one of my first professional shows I did was called Tartuffe, Old French comedy.
Speaker B:And, like, even though it's like, old and French, like, I remember, like, I played like, a black man, and I had dreads and everything.
Speaker B:And, like, it was like, everything.
Speaker B:I was like, oh.
Speaker B:I was like, this is it.
Speaker B:Like, this is things that I want to do.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so, like, I started with a lot of, like, sort of like, you know, classical work, but then eventually, especially once I got to grad school, was doing more, like, contemporary work, which was, like, really, really cool.
Speaker A:That is pretty cool.
Speaker A:Is that like a Broadway show that you.
Speaker A:Or, like, a show in general?
Speaker A:I got like, maybe like, say four or five shows that you really, really want to do.
Speaker A:I'm guessing Kinky Boots is one of them, but I could be assuming.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Honestly.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:I'm gonna put it out there.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:I want to do Kinky Boots.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Cute.
Speaker B:Like, I feel like I could really.
Speaker B:And, you know, you saw the show, like, I mean, in this show, like, it kind of gets to do, like, be a little sexy.
Speaker B:Like, kind of like little things.
Speaker B:They're like, yeah, like, I would say that's one of them.
Speaker B:It's so hard for me nowadays because I feel like nowadays all I want to do is, like, new plays.
Speaker B:Like, the things that I want to do are not written yet or are being written right now.
Speaker B:And so, like, it's hard for me to be like, oh, these Broadway shows I want to be in.
Speaker B:Da da da, da, da da.
Speaker B:But, like, like, for example, like, a show that I recently saw on Broadway that, like, touched me and, like, I would want to do something like.
Speaker B:That was Jaja's African hair braiding.
Speaker A:I love that show.
Speaker A:I love that show.
Speaker A:My God, I love that show.
Speaker A:I didn't see it on Broadway.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It in Chicago at the Shakespeare Theater.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think they were touring.
Speaker A:They were doing, like, a mini tour.
Speaker A:I don't know if it was the tour.
Speaker A:I don't know if the.
Speaker A:The theater put it up, but I saw it there.
Speaker B:My friend.
Speaker B:My friend may have seen.
Speaker B:My friend Leo Vina is in that production.
Speaker A:Oh, the one in Chicago?
Speaker B:Yeah, the one in Chicago and the one that's touring around.
Speaker A:Probably.
Speaker A:Probably.
Speaker A:I saw it there, and then I saw.
Speaker A:There's a theater in South.
Speaker A:Is this South Fulton?
Speaker A:It's like a suburb in Atlanta.
Speaker A:They did.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They did it.
Speaker A:So they did a good job too, also.
Speaker A:But I saw it in Chicago.
Speaker A:I was like, this is so.
Speaker A:It is so.
Speaker A:Jaja is so relevant right now in the way.
Speaker A:The world that we are in.
Speaker A:It is authentically African to the bone in a way that celebrates the different parts of who we are, from Nigeria to Ghana to Sierra Leone.
Speaker A:And then also the diasporic thing we talked about earlier on.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And the camaraderie between black people and African Americans and African people.
Speaker A:It's just everybody was.
Speaker A:There was a diverse audience.
Speaker A:Everybody was laughing.
Speaker A:Everybody loved it.
Speaker A:I love judges.
Speaker A:I could talk about judges all day, you know, that is such a good show.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you would thrive in that show.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker B:Love to be, like, the gentleman.
Speaker B:I mean, like.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:And also, like, I love.
Speaker B:You've actually seen already.
Speaker B:Like, I love playing different roles.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:I love being in one show where I can play, like, five different roles and switch, switch.
Speaker B:And, like, that is a play, and I kind of play that, like, I wanna do so bad.
Speaker B:I wanna.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, that would.
Speaker B:So, like, I guess.
Speaker B:Yeah, Jajas would be one of them and, like, and plays like, jajas.
Speaker B:Like, I wanna.
Speaker B:Like, I actually think what's funny is, I think over the years, like, I've now, like, really become very clear, like, I want to tell African stories.
Speaker B:Stories.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And I know that puts me in such a niche, but, like, I sort of don't care because, like, the niche is actually what makes me powerful.
Speaker B:Like, I want to tell African stories.
Speaker B:Like, I want to tell queer African stories.
Speaker B:Like, Like, I.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm trying to write also some of those stories as well and not just wait for other people to do it for me.
Speaker B:And so, like, yeah, those are the kinds of things that I really want to do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And heavy on the queer African stories.
Speaker A:I feel like there is an idea that.
Speaker A:Which is.
Speaker A:Which is why I.
Speaker A:Like where.
Speaker A:When we're a fan, which we're going to get into in a little bit, but the idea that when you grow up as a queer person on the continent, the idea that your queerness is the result of Western influences.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or you watched a lot of American movies, or you, you know, you are influenced by the culture of the folks, you know, that live in the, you know, wherever they live, that us as Africans are not queer in ourselves.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But just, you know, learning that there are people who may live in the villages.
Speaker A:I may have no access.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:To foreign content at all, but are still queer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying that, you know, we have ancestors who are queer.
Speaker A:We have people who don't speak a lick of English but know how to articulate their love for, you know, the same sex or know how to articulate.
Speaker A:They are transness.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:And I'm like, we have to be able to tell our stories because it solidifies that, you know, queerness is African.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it's a huge lie that it is of a Western influence or import or whatever they want to.
Speaker A:They want to paint it at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, you.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Oh, you articulated that perfectly, Harry.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:So being queer is being African.
Speaker B:Like, it just is.
Speaker B:And what's funny is that like, like, true story.
Speaker B:Like when I was.
Speaker B:When I was a child in Ghana, like, before I knew even what America was like, before I knew, before I even knew how to articulate words, I knew I was gay.
Speaker B:Like, I knew.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:I remember I went to my mom when I was like a very young boy, and I.
Speaker B:I used to have, like, a crush on, like, one of my best friends, and I was like, it was Kenneth Oh, God.
Speaker B:I was obsessed.
Speaker B:And I went.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:I said, I know everyone can have a girlfriend, but could you have a boyfriend?
Speaker B:And she was like, wait, what do you mean?
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, you know, Regina is like, my friend who's a girl.
Speaker B:Kenneth could also be my boyfriend.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And, like, she was like, yes, but just don't say that.
Speaker B:She's like, just don't say it, please.
Speaker B:Like, please.
Speaker B:I was like, okay.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I knew.
Speaker B:I knew even before I could articulate who I was that I.
Speaker B:I was gay.
Speaker B:I was queer.
Speaker B:And so, like, yeah, like, and.
Speaker B: years, went back in: Speaker B:Like, now that you're gay, because now that you're gay, like, you're not Ghanaian, you're not African.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Like, straight up was being told, like, like, you can't be African and gay.
Speaker B:Like, like, you said, that's a Western Netherlands.
Speaker B:They've changed.
Speaker B:You've changed, dude.
Speaker B:They've changed you over there.
Speaker B:And it's like, wait, what?
Speaker B:Like, I was always this way.
Speaker B:I just now have the words.
Speaker B:I have the language.
Speaker B:I have the.
Speaker B:I have the wherewithal to, like, truly fully be myself.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And for some reason, they just.
Speaker B:I do not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I could go into this all day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, that.
Speaker A:That has.
Speaker A:That had to have been hard.
Speaker A:And I mean, and I know that, like, an Instagram bio, for example, says your mom wants you to be a pastor.
Speaker A:So just curious about, like, that was funny, though.
Speaker A:But, like, hearing this context now, just curious about what is that relationship?
Speaker A:Like, not just even with your mom, but also with your dad, who you kind of grew up with right here in the state.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And it's so funny, because now that you're asking, I'm like, I also want to know your story, because I'm like, I know this one.
Speaker B:But, like, I'm like, I want to hear the Harry story, too.
Speaker A:You know, you probably will.
Speaker A:You probably will, you know, but you are.
Speaker A:You have center stage.
Speaker A:You are the guest on the show.
Speaker A:You are.
Speaker A:This is your.
Speaker A:This is your stage, you know?
Speaker B:Sure, fine.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:We're gonna find out.
Speaker B:But yeah, yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker B:My Instagram bio says my mother wishes I was a pastor.
Speaker B:And that's not just that she wished.
Speaker B:It's like, she still wishes.
Speaker B:So growing Up.
Speaker B:I grew up in the church.
Speaker B:You know, talk about Western influence.
Speaker B:Like, the church is a Western that.
Speaker A:That they're not ready for that conversation.
Speaker B:I'm not ready for that conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not ready for that conversation, though.
Speaker B:That actually.
Speaker B:The reason why you think my being is inherently wrong is because of the Western influence you've gotten from the church that says that my being is wrong because maybe we've always existed, you know, like the, the, the witch doctors and the, like, people who live in the, like the, the woods in Ghana and then I'm sure, Nigeria.
Speaker B:A lot of them are queer.
Speaker B:That's why they are able to, like, like, be able to like, access the gods.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so it's funny that, like, all of a sudden we're like, villainizing those people because of this thing called church.
Speaker B:Anyway, that's.
Speaker B:I can rant.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, but, but yeah, no, my, my.
Speaker B:So my relationship with my dad is that we don't have a relationship anymore.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I've.
Speaker B:I've done a lot of work.
Speaker B:Work, a lot of therapy to unpack that.
Speaker B:And it no longer, like, sort of affects me in a way that it used to.
Speaker B:I moved here, right.
Speaker B:I didn't live with my mom anymore.
Speaker B:And so my mom and I, we sort of like, always have had a relationship, but sort of like through phone calls and all that.
Speaker B:And so I'll get to her in a second.
Speaker B:But with my dad, I got kicked out of the house when I was in college because of being gay.
Speaker B:Barged into my room one night and was like, was like, are you gay?
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:And I knew in my heart of hearts, I was like, if I come out to this man, the result would not be good.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, or I'm going to be kicked out or something terrible is going to happen to me.
Speaker B:My dad is like a deacon at church.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:I grew up.
Speaker B:I grew up.
Speaker B:Like, honestly, I went to, like, preachers camp when I was 13 because that's what I was supposed to be, was to be a preacher.
Speaker B:Like, and, and yeah, and, and, and I think when I was growing up, I, I, that's something I did want because I thought, oh, yeah, like, I was put on this earth to, like, preach the word of God.
Speaker B:And so, like, okay, cool, that's something I want.
Speaker B:And like, I loved church.
Speaker B:Like, I loved the community aspect of it.
Speaker B:I loved the singing aspect of it.
Speaker B:But once the church started to tell me that, like, I couldn't be who I was.
Speaker B:I started to get from it because I was like, oh, God preaches about love, but not telling me that, like, I can't be loved by the per.
Speaker B:By the.
Speaker B:The entity that created me to be exactly who I am.
Speaker B:I just could not understand that.
Speaker B:And so I started to sort of distance myself from the church, but I was still being forced to go every Sunday.
Speaker B:I had to go to church with my dad.
Speaker B:And so when he barges into my room and says that, I was like, no, I'm not.
Speaker B:Like, basically, I.
Speaker B:I lied to him.
Speaker B:I was like, no, I'm not.
Speaker B:What are you talking about?
Speaker B:And he's like.
Speaker B:He's like, I know you are.
Speaker B:Like, I've seen your Facebook.
Speaker B:Like, I know the people you hung out with.
Speaker B:Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:But you need to figure it out, because I can't have a gay son in my house.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I don't know what you want me to say to that.
Speaker B:And he's like.
Speaker B:He's like, just figure it out.
Speaker B:Figure it out.
Speaker B:You're either gonna be gay and leave my house, or you're gonna change and go to church.
Speaker B:And da, da, da, da.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, well, I'll take your options into consideration.
Speaker B:Let me just go back to bed because I'm trying to go to sleep.
Speaker B:I have school the next day.
Speaker B:I have a show to do the next day.
Speaker B:Like, I'm nothing about this right now.
Speaker B:So I really did not take it seriously, because, you know, African parents, they make threats all the time, and you're like, whatever.
Speaker B:Sure enough, a week later, he, like, grabs my keys.
Speaker B:I'm like, getting ready to go do, like, one of my first professional shows in Denver.
Speaker B:And he goes, figure out where you're gonna go sleep tonight, because you can't come back here.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:True story.
Speaker B:I was like, are you serious?
Speaker B:And he's like, yeah, I am so serious.
Speaker B:I cannot have a gay person in my house.
Speaker B:I was like, okay.
Speaker B:I, like, grab.
Speaker B:Basically grabbed, like, two or three pieces of clothing.
Speaker B:I was, like, running late to go do my show.
Speaker B:That's always happened to me.
Speaker B:Like, bad things happen to me almost every time something really great is happening to me at the same time.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, great.
Speaker B:I grab all my shit, and, like, I leave.
Speaker B:I go and, like, sweep from the bus.
Speaker B:I'm, like, on the bus going, it didn't feel real.
Speaker B:You know, I was like, that.
Speaker B:That didn't feel real.
Speaker B:And so I go do my show, and I'm doing A show called the Christians.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:The Christians by Lucas Nath.
Speaker B:And it's a show about, like, church and about, like, when church starts to, like, defy what, like, what people, like, believe.
Speaker B:Like, how do people navigate?
Speaker B:And, like, these two preachers basically have fighting the whole time.
Speaker B:And I'm sitting there, I was, like, part of the choir, and, you know, I'm praising God, and I'm in my head, I'm thinking, I'm praising God, but because of God, my dad just kicked me out of the house.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Yeah, and then the show ends.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know what to do.
Speaker B:I, like, go back to call it to my college, and I end up sleeping in the couches of the green room.
Speaker B:I was practically homeless for three months.
Speaker B:Sense.
Speaker A:I'm so sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker B:I mean, it was.
Speaker B:It was crazy.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And for the longest time, nobody knew that this was happening to me.
Speaker B:I was, you know, I was like.
Speaker B:I was sort of.
Speaker B:One thing about me, I'm cunning.
Speaker B:Like, I will find a way to make it work.
Speaker B:So, like, yeah, I was making it work.
Speaker B:Nobody knew.
Speaker B:I was like, I didn't have a home to be in.
Speaker B:And I remember eventually, like, one of my teachers, like, found out.
Speaker B:That's also another long story.
Speaker B:It's like, he found out that teacher sort of changed my life.
Speaker B:And, like.
Speaker B:Like, he's like, okay, great.
Speaker B:He's like, I won't let you sleep in the green room.
Speaker B:You can sleep in my office.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:He's like, I wish I could, like, bring you home, but, you know, that's, like, not allowed.
Speaker B:And so he's like, you can sleep in my office.
Speaker B:I'll give you a key to my office.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, I slept in this office.
Speaker B:And so in between the green room and the office, that's.
Speaker B:That was my living situation for three months, until eventually, like, I found an apartment near the campus and stuff like that and then moved into that apartment.
Speaker B:And then a year later, I was in San Diego.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that.
Speaker B:That all was, like.
Speaker B:The way in which my African father, like, approached my sexuality was to, like, kick me out of the house.
Speaker B:I tried going back.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:This is again, a time where I was trying to shape shift, and I was like.
Speaker B:I went back and I was like.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm not gonna change who I am.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I remember my conversation I had with him.
Speaker B:I was like, if I've done something to offend you, like, I would love to know what those things are, and I would love to, like, Fix them.
Speaker B:Like, well, you're a bad kid and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And all these people have influence on you.
Speaker B:And, like, he just went through a list, and I was like, all those things are made up.
Speaker B:You just think horribly of me because of my sexuality.
Speaker B:Can't change that.
Speaker B:And so I'm gonna grab the rest of my shit and I'm gonna leave this house, and I would never see you again until you come reaching for me.
Speaker B:And over the years, like, I, I've tried many times to, like, reach him.
Speaker B:Especially, like, once, like, I did, I, like, did.
Speaker B:Did therapy in grad school and, like, realized that, like, I, I actually need to, like, sort of release him from my life.
Speaker B:Like, I can't hold on to it so much.
Speaker B:I, like, called him and, like, read a letter to him and, like, I was like, hey, like, you know, I just want to have a relationship with you.
Speaker B:If you want.
Speaker B:I will not reach out to you unless you reach out to me again.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:So that was 20, 25 years later.
Speaker B:Not a word from my father.
Speaker B:That's just what it is.
Speaker B:But, like, I, I, I actually thank him sometimes for that push because, like, in a way that really forced me to, like, really dig into my sexuality and be like, okay, is this really who I am?
Speaker B:Like, am I being influenced?
Speaker B:Like, I really had to, like, think about all the things through all these things, and I realized I was like, oh, no, this is.
Speaker B:Has always been who I am.
Speaker B:Like, I had conversations with my mom where I was like, remember when I asked you, like, can I have a boyfriend?
Speaker B:Like, why did you think I asked you that?
Speaker B:Like, I was always gay.
Speaker B:And, like, you know, my relationship with her, I still have a relationship with her, but, like, when I went back to Ghana, that was a whole other thing.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, I, I just had such a hard time being back home with her.
Speaker B:We were fighting every day because I was gay, because I am gay.
Speaker B:And, like, you know, she just would never change.
Speaker B:And I can't ask her to change.
Speaker B:Like, I no longer feel the need to, like, ask people to change for me.
Speaker B:I'm like, either come aboard or don't, because I am not about to change for anybody else, and I will not expect the same of you.
Speaker B:And so in a way, we have a relationship where we just don't talk about it.
Speaker B:And she's still literally, so they say, well, call me.
Speaker B:So they'll be like, you know, I wish you were, you know, that you would be a pasta, and da, da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yeah, Keep dreaming, girl.
Speaker B:I'm like, keep dreaming.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:And part of the reason why I put it on my Instagram is because I.
Speaker B:I was like, I've had a lot of conversations with friends over the years about this thing, and.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:And a lot of the things that has come up is like, I am a preacher.
Speaker B:Preach through.
Speaker B:Through storytelling, like, through being a queer black man on stage, like, and on screen.
Speaker B:That's the way that I'm preaching to the world is, like, acceptance and, like, and how to yourself.
Speaker B:Because I get to be myself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, in a way, I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, I am fulfilling my mother's wishes.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is real.
Speaker A:But it has to be.
Speaker A:No, I understand.
Speaker A:But it also has to be, like, you know, navigating like family.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:I think that that's, like, no matter how.
Speaker A:How much we believe or we trust that we are.
Speaker A:We can.
Speaker A:We are fine, you know, by ourselves, and we don't need anybody.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like our families are still very, like, important to us in a way.
Speaker A:And so just hearing your story, it's a one of great strength, but also, like, holding that with care, too, considering that, you know, you've lost.
Speaker A:That is a relationship that's been lost.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's still going to be hard to navigate.
Speaker A:Regardless of if I'm, like, uncomfortable with myself and I'm, you know, fulfilled, it's still a relationship that's lost, you know?
Speaker B:You know, thank you for saying that.
Speaker B:You're so right.
Speaker B:Like, it's so funny.
Speaker B:As I was talking about this right now, I was like, oh, I feel like.
Speaker B:Like, I have not been affected by it actually in a long time.
Speaker B:And, like, right now I feel, like, a little bit affected by it.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, yeah, there is.
Speaker B:Like, I don't feel affected by it in a sense of, like, oh, oh, no.
Speaker B:Like, I don't have my.
Speaker B:Like, I'm like, oh, that's fine.
Speaker B:But I think in a way, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm sad.
Speaker B:I'm sad that, like, my dad doesn't get to see who I am.
Speaker B:Like, I'm sad that, like, I don't get to, like, invite him to come see my play in Minnesota.
Speaker B:Like, like, a play that actually he might love because it's, like, like, so African and so funny and, like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, like, yeah, it makes me a little bit sad that, like, in a way, he's chosen to, like, approach our relationship that way when, like, if my dad called me today and was like, I want to have a relationship with you now, I'd be like, yes, let's go, let's go.
Speaker B:It would have.
Speaker B:Now it would have to be on my terms.
Speaker B:Because one thing about it, I'm not about to change for you, but like, I, I'm very much open to that.
Speaker B:And I think it's sad that like, like a lot of Africans and a lot of people in the world just like, allow that sort of thinking to like, ruin relationships.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah.
Speaker B:And, and the thing that actually makes me sad for is like, when I was back home in Ghana, like, I had, you know, little nephews and nieces who are like, I'm like, looking at them, I'm like, baby, you're probably gay, you know, and, and it made me sad for them because I'm like, oh, but you live here where I know it's going to be so difficult for you to be who you are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And yeah, that, that.
Speaker B:Those are the moments that, like, it tugs at my heart.
Speaker B:It's like, I just want to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just.
Speaker A:Even the anti gay laws, you know, back home, I know that Ghana is dealing with theirs.
Speaker A:We dealt with ours in Nigeria.
Speaker A:We currently have three anti gay laws right now.
Speaker A:And I know that Ghana had the, you know, so I just imagine living under that kind of system and I'm trying to navigate that.
Speaker A:It's very difficult, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I wanna, I wanna, you know, bring us back to something, you know, lighter, please.
Speaker A:Something a bit lighter is where we're found, you know, at the Penumbra Theater.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:By the time this episode will probably air, you probably will be done with the show.
Speaker A:But also, like, such a good show.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker A:Did like a short recap on my Instagram.
Speaker A:I think that it is.
Speaker A:I was just really.
Speaker A:It's very artistic.
Speaker A:So you have to watch intensely to get it.
Speaker A:It doesn't try to be deep, but it is deep.
Speaker A:So you have to, you have to understand what the, what the themes are critically.
Speaker A:But it's also very good.
Speaker A:And like I said, I like that, you know, it, it sets on the shores of Ghana.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:So tell me about how did you find.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:How did you find out about the play?
Speaker A:You know, what was the process like for you?
Speaker A:Because you play.
Speaker A:I used to play multiple characters on that, on that play.
Speaker A:So you are bringing different emotions and feelings to each character to make them distinct and unique.
Speaker A:So just give me the tea about when we are found from start to finish.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:No, I.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I want to give you the.
Speaker B:All the tea.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:First of all, thank you once again for, like, coming to see the play and for reaching out to me about how much it touched you.
Speaker B:Like, it really means the world.
Speaker B:Like, you are who I do it for.
Speaker B:Like, you.
Speaker B:Like, for queer Africans.
Speaker B:I'm just like.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This whole process has been such a whirlwind with how much it's, like, moved me as an.
Speaker B:As an artist and as a human being.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So thank you for that.
Speaker B:I just wanted to say that out loud and.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's so funny I came.
Speaker B:It's so funny.
Speaker B:Donnie Arlov, who is the playwright of.
Speaker B:We Call it a Fable.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We're not calling this a play.
Speaker B:We call it a fable, which is also very African way that.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is very African.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Donnie Arlov is an amazing playwright, like, an incredible playwright who's, like, been produced everywhere, wrote this play, which was commissioned by Penumbra, So it's been written specifically for Penumbra and hopefully, you know, gets done everywhere else.
Speaker B:Wrote this play, asked his friend, who's also my friend, Lamar Perry, to direct it, to direct a workshop of it.
Speaker B:This was two years ago.
Speaker B:And Lamar picked up the phone and called me and was like, I have a role for you that I think is perfectly made for you.
Speaker B:And I was like, what is it?
Speaker B:And, like, he's.
Speaker B:He's like, well, it's still being written.
Speaker B:He's like, it's still being written.
Speaker B:So really, I don't have a script for you, but here's the theme is that it's set in Ghana.
Speaker B:It's about two lovers who get separated at sea, and one has to go seeking the other.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't even need any convincing.
Speaker B:I'm there, I'm there, I'm there, I'm there.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:And literally the next week, like, I was on a plane.
Speaker B:Plane to come to Minnesota to do a workshop of this.
Speaker B:Of this fable that we're in right now.
Speaker B:And when we sat down on that table on the first day and we read it out loud.
Speaker B:Actually, you know, initially I was playing the seeker, like, the other role.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know that.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, and I'll get into how, like, now I've come to play the other one that I'm like, oh, wait, I actually.
Speaker B:I'm so glad.
Speaker B:Like, it's sort of switched because, like.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to imagine you as a seeker.
Speaker A:I was like, you could do it.
Speaker A:You're an actor.
Speaker A:You could do it.
Speaker A:Hey, I'm not gonna knock you.
Speaker A:You could do it.
Speaker A:You're an actor.
Speaker A:But I like, yeah, I feel like the other roles were made for you.
Speaker B:No, they were made for me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, truly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's so funny, when we sat down, yeah.
Speaker B:I read the Secret, and.
Speaker B:But the thing that.
Speaker B:That hit me was that, like, it was set in Ghana.
Speaker B:I was like, like, when do I get to do plays set in Ghana?
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And to play, like.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then on top of that, to play a queer African Ghanaian, I was like, whoa.
Speaker B:And Donye wrote this without knowing who I was.
Speaker B:So, like, that just was, like, divine intervention there.
Speaker B:And, like, Lamar, like, picking up the phone and going, you're literally.
Speaker B:Was like, I cannot imagine anybody else doing this except for you.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay.
Speaker B:Like, I just have to accept that.
Speaker B:That, like, this is meant for me, and.
Speaker B:And just, like, live fully in it.
Speaker B:So we.
Speaker B:Yeah, we did that workshop.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:Years later, Lamar was like, no, we're gonna do a production of it.
Speaker B:Like, just keep your calendar open.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, sure, sure.
Speaker B:I didn't hear anything for, like, months.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I'm keeping my calendar open, but, like, is this gonna happen for real?
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Yeah, it eventually, like, worked out, and.
Speaker B:And I once again got another call that it was like, like, now we actually want you to play the other part of it, which is that all the roles that you see.
Speaker B:So, like, for people who don't know, like, you know, I play the sun, the fish, the moon, and the wind.
Speaker B:And then I also played this.
Speaker B:The founder found.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, yeah, and.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And man, too, in, like, the last part of it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And this process, this time has been, like, life altering.
Speaker B:Like, I love playing the seeker, obviously.
Speaker B:Like, I think it's really cool.
Speaker B:But, like, this other part of it was, like, tailor made for me.
Speaker B:Like, I have never once, like, been in something where I get to play so many variations of who I am as Anthony, who I am as a gig, and Ian, man, Like, I get to play the sexuality of myself.
Speaker B:I get to play, like, the funny.
Speaker B:The funny, cunning part of myself.
Speaker B:I get to play, like, the African uncle part of myself.
Speaker B:You know, I get to play the, like, African auntie with the wind, you know, part of myself.
Speaker B:Like, I get to.
Speaker B:To play all these versions of myself that, like, I've always dreamed of playing.
Speaker B:And, and that I've.
Speaker B:And, and honestly, you know, I have to thank all my African aunts and uncles and, and my mom that I grew up with because they've given me so many characters.
Speaker A:That's real.
Speaker A:That is real.
Speaker A:Like, I forgot uncles and aunties will bring the dramatic.
Speaker B:Oh, they will bring that drama.
Speaker A:That will bring it.
Speaker A:So yeah, I'm here for it.
Speaker B:Truly.
Speaker B:Truly.
Speaker B:Somebody recently, somebody asked me like, like, is it hard to play?
Speaker B:And I was like, no, trust me, it is not hard to tap into these people because I know them in my bones.
Speaker B:I know them so well.
Speaker B:And I get to play myself like, I get to play myself in the found.
Speaker B:Like, like it, it, it's, it has really sort of like changed my life and changed the way I want to approach my artistry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Be like capable of doing all these things, coming all these variations and like I get to really stretch myself when I'm up in this like hour and five minute show and just all these people and get to.
Speaker B:And honestly ended.
Speaker B:The biggest part of it for me is I get to make people laugh.
Speaker A:Yes, you do.
Speaker A:You definitely do.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker B:I love to make people laugh and so like getting to do it in this way is, it's a joy.
Speaker B:So yeah, that's how the process has gotten to be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What are they gonna miss from the play?
Speaker A:Once you're like, once you're all rap, what are they gonna miss?
Speaker A:And what do you want the next theater or producer actor who's gonna make the play?
Speaker A:What do you want them to take away or know from doing it?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker B:It's a great question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, first of all, I hope I'm the only one doing better.
Speaker B:Be me.
Speaker B:Oh, they know.
Speaker B:We've had conversations.
Speaker B:But yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna miss, I'm gonna miss being able to play a very, very variations of myself.
Speaker B:I'm gonna, I'm really gonna miss, I'm gonna miss like the sexuality of it.
Speaker B:I'm gonna miss the tailor madeness of this.
Speaker B:Like I get up on this day.
Speaker B:It's so funny.
Speaker B:Actually every, every night right before I go up.
Speaker B:Because also the, the fable starts with a dance and that dance is so hard, it is not easy.
Speaker B:And so every night I have to be like, okay, here we go, here we go.
Speaker B:But I'm actually even going to miss that because like, in a way I feel like I get shot out of a cannon every night in a way that like gets my senses wired.
Speaker B:A way that like I don't always get to play in everything that I do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I'm going to miss all those things and I would say.
Speaker B:And I'm going to miss the people here.
Speaker B:I'm going to miss the people.
Speaker B:I'm going to miss Haylin, like, working with Haylen.
Speaker B:I'm going to miss just, you know, the people who have been.
Speaker B:Who have touched this play and I made it.
Speaker B:Have made it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:To answer your second question, yeah.
Speaker B:The thing that I'd say for people who get to produce this and get to make this, because I really do hope it gets, like, get made everywhere because it needs to is.
Speaker B:Is remember that at the center of this, that this fable is about being queer, being African, being black.
Speaker B:Like, those three things and more have to be center of the storytelling of this.
Speaker B:Like, you can't have the Africanness in this play without having the queerness.
Speaker B:Like, you can't have the pain of this play without having the laughter of this play.
Speaker B:Because one thing that's.
Speaker B:I find as a queer Africans, is that, like, we can laugh.
Speaker B:We can laugh like crazy and then we can cry when.
Speaker B:When we.
Speaker B:When we just need to let it out.
Speaker B:And like, I just don't.
Speaker B:I don't ever want people to forget that sort of like, funniness of this thing that comes from being a true queer, African, black person in this world.
Speaker B:Because pain is also our laughter.
Speaker B:It's also our strength.
Speaker B:It's also our, like, our sex.
Speaker B:Our sexiness.
Speaker B:We're sexy because there's so much pain.
Speaker A:You know, that's real.
Speaker A:That is real.
Speaker A:That is real.
Speaker A:You know, before we.
Speaker A:Before we, you know, wrap up this episode, I want to do a quick, like, Anthony trivia rapid fire situation.
Speaker A:I saw that you went to Cowboy Carter in la.
Speaker A:You know, I can tell that you are a Beyonce fan.
Speaker A:You're in the beehive.
Speaker A:So give me, like, what I like.
Speaker A:Your top three Beyonce songs.
Speaker B:That is so.
Speaker B:Why would you do this to me?
Speaker A:We gotta know what people want to know.
Speaker A:The people want to know.
Speaker B:People want to know.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm just gonna preface this by saying these are not my.
Speaker B:These are not my only three Beyonce Ritz, because it really.
Speaker B:The gamut runs deep.
Speaker B:But I would say one of my absolute favorites is diva.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Diva down.
Speaker B:Like, and I think part of it is because I recently I caught with Carter.
Speaker B:I was this close to Beyonce.
Speaker B:Like, okay, he was right there, which was crazy.
Speaker B:And she performed Diva, like, right in, like, in the Middle of the stage, like, where I was, and it blew my mind.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:It took me and I always knew that was one of my favorite songs, but all of a sudden I was like, this might be one of my favorite songs of all time.
Speaker B:Like, it really does it for me.
Speaker B:She ain't no diva.
Speaker B:Just like.
Speaker A:Did she point at you?
Speaker B:I wish she did.
Speaker B:Oh, that would have been everything.
Speaker B:That would have been everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I'll say diva.
Speaker B:I love diva.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I will also say one of my other favorites is Freecam Dress.
Speaker A:Okay, That's a good one.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love Freak.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm just like.
Speaker B:When I'm getting ready and I put on Freaka, I'm just like, oh, my God.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:It'd be getting me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I would say freak up.
Speaker B:And also these change over time, obviously, you know?
Speaker B:And then honestly, I have to say Alien Superstar.
Speaker B:I say Alien Superstar because I.
Speaker B:I also thought about.
Speaker B:Let's talk about Blow.
Speaker B:Blow is also one of my.
Speaker B:God, I love her, but aliens are so hard because it's like the most recent, you know?
Speaker B:And like, that song, I mean, like, I remember when she.
Speaker B:The first time I heard I'm one of one.
Speaker B:I'm number one.
Speaker B:I'm the only one.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She sees me and I see her.
Speaker B:Got it?
Speaker B:Yeah, got it.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I will play that every time I need, like, a little.
Speaker B:A little something.
Speaker A:A little push.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And also I'll say one more.
Speaker B:I'll say one more recently.
Speaker B:Two Hands to Heaven.
Speaker A:I love Two Hands to Heaven.
Speaker A:I love to handsome as to heaven.
Speaker A:I love some.
Speaker A:Okay, cool, cool.
Speaker A:Who I want to collaborate with.
Speaker B:There's always been one.
Speaker B:Viola Davis.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I love that woman down.
Speaker B:I love that woman down.
Speaker B:Like, I feel like she should play my mother in a movie.
Speaker B:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I love Viola Davis.
Speaker B:Yeah, so her.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:And Michaela Cole.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Is she from Ghana?
Speaker B:She is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I think I kind of knew that, honestly, I was going to front.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I love her.
Speaker A:I love her storytelling.
Speaker A:It's pretty.
Speaker A:It's pretty unique.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I just.
Speaker B:I love her.
Speaker B:Like, I just.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:There's so much about her, her storytelling that, like, hits me and, like, I want to work with her both as a creator, as an actor, like, in.
Speaker B:In just all sorts of things.
Speaker B:So, like, yeah, I would say Michaela Cole.
Speaker B:I'll say Viola Davis.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'll say those two.
Speaker A:Okay, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker A:What is the piece of art that has Changed your life right now.
Speaker A:It could be a song, it could be a movie, it could be a play, it could be a musical, it could be anything.
Speaker A:It could be a painting.
Speaker B:Oh, a piece of art that has changed my life.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is gonna, you're gonna be like, duh.
Speaker B:But seeing Beyonce again, and I saw her for Renaissance.
Speaker B:Renaissance.
Speaker B:Okay, you know what?
Speaker B:Cabo Carter, obviously, because I recently saw it.
Speaker B:I made Chainbox.
Speaker B:Changed my life.
Speaker B:That tour.
Speaker B:I saw it twice in LA because I, I, I always knew Beyonce as like, and this was my first time here.
Speaker B:She's like a superstar, we all love her.
Speaker B:But I saw a storyteller in her during Renaissance.
Speaker B:Then I was like, oh, this is the kind of storyteller I need to be.
Speaker B:Just like, the full bodied, like, excellence, like drive, like joy, and like, paint, like, all of it.
Speaker B:Like, when she sings Church Girl, like, it really hits me in a way.
Speaker B:So I would say, honestly, yeah, Renaissance was like, like, it's something that I recently saw and experienced that, like, I.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Still think about it till this day.
Speaker A:Okay, what is your guilty pleasure?
Speaker B:Well, no, let me be pg.
Speaker A:I am screaming.
Speaker B:My first thought was now very pg.
Speaker A:So this is a safe space.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, I just love it.
Speaker B:I love being.
Speaker B:I'll say I love touch.
Speaker B:Okay, I love touch.
Speaker B:I love touch.
Speaker B:But I also love, like, I love touch and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker B:Honestly, to be more pg, I love, like, like food.
Speaker B:I just love food.
Speaker B:I love food.
Speaker B:Like, I love, like, cooking.
Speaker B:I love, I love, like, eating like a, a peanut butter cup from Trader Joe's.
Speaker B:I got those, like, dark little peanut butter cups.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:If it's on the table, I'm eating them.
Speaker B:Plantain chips, eating them, like, you know, just all sorts of things.
Speaker B:But I'll say touch in general.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:And since you mentioned food, I want to just ask this, just random.
Speaker A:Ghana jollof or Nigerian jollof?
Speaker B:Now you know the answer to that.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Nigerian jala.
Speaker B:Excuse me.
Speaker A:You know what's funny?
Speaker A:Last time I was in la, I don't know where I was going to, someone took me in the ride.
Speaker A:Like, my Uber driver was from Ghana.
Speaker A:And she was going on and on about how our jollof wasn't it how gan Jolof was the best.
Speaker A:And then she pulled up a Instagram video, like, this is how we make our gan jollof.
Speaker A:I'm like, this is how we also make our jollof literally the same.
Speaker A:It's not that deep.
Speaker A:I'm like, literally this same thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker B:We literally use the same ingredients.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They're like.
Speaker A:But we, you know, we will blend it and we will.
Speaker A:You know, I'm just like, I guess, you know, it's so funny that, like, I guess.
Speaker B:I guess it was a whole.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was like a.
Speaker A:You know, la, you know, rides are long because of traffic.
Speaker A:It was like a 25 minute ride of, you know, but she was, you know, she's watching.
Speaker A:I love you.
Speaker A:You have, you had a great time.
Speaker A:You had a great, great.
Speaker A:You know, and she was like, oh, they're not like African restaurants in la.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:They're not a lot of African restaurants in LA for her to speak from.
Speaker A:Like, really good ones.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it was very interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, funny.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Funny enough, there are a lot of Nigerian restaurants in la.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:Most.
Speaker B:Most of the African restaurants in LA are Nigerian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Shout out to the Nigerians.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Y' all do one thing about it.
Speaker B:Y' all do it.
Speaker B:Y' all do it big.
Speaker B:Big.
Speaker A:Yes, we do do it big.
Speaker B:Not always better, but you do it big.
Speaker A:It's the shade for me.
Speaker A:Before we.
Speaker A:Before we wrap this up, I want to just ask this final question.
Speaker A:Like, what do you want, like, your legacy to be as Anthony the storyteller?
Speaker B:Oh, what about my legacy?
Speaker B:I feel like I'm too young to be my only legacy.
Speaker A:But we're never too young.
Speaker A:We're never too young.
Speaker A:It's kind of like, you know, I feel like, like, you know, in the words of Beyonce, you know, I was here, like, you know, when, you know, after 10, after.
Speaker A:Not 10, maybe like 20, 30 years from now.
Speaker A:Because you could even have.
Speaker A:You could be a league, you could be a living legend who has a legacy and still be alive, you know?
Speaker A:And so what do you want people to remember you for and remember you by?
Speaker B:Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you for, for putting that into context.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And one thing about it, like, I do want to be a living legend.
Speaker B:Like, I want, like, I want people to know my name and go, this is the impact that.
Speaker B:That Anthony Adu has on me.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm just gonna say that first of all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'll say.
Speaker B:I'll say the impact that I want to have, the legacy I want to have, is to show the.
Speaker B:To show the world, but really, most, most more specifically, young African gay boys and lesbian girls and trans girls that they can fully be who they are.
Speaker B:They can fully be who they are.
Speaker B:And they can.
Speaker B:They can live a full life.
Speaker B:Not in spite of who they are, but because of who they are.
Speaker B:Like, my story so far is one where I'm like, there are many times where life could have just cut me down and I could not have risen back up, but I found myself rising back every time.
Speaker B:I'm like, I ain't going nowhere.
Speaker B:And so, like, I.
Speaker B:The legacy I want to leave is that, like, I want to show the world that, like, you can be gay and black and African and still fucking make a life out of your life.
Speaker B:Life is so short and it's so long that, like, why allow other people, the world, to tell you what you can and cannot do?
Speaker B:Fuck that.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So, yeah, like, I want my storytelling to be one that.
Speaker B:That encourages people and, like, pushes people to, like, specifically queer African people to fully be who they are and to.
Speaker B:And to live a full life because of who they are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's real.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:That was very profound.
Speaker A:And just thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you for the work that you're doing, for showing up in spaces, for being your authentic self, and for, you know, wanting to elevate our stories and tell our stories.
Speaker A:It is very appreciated.
Speaker A:And I would, you know, put some links in the description so folks can connect with you, connect with your work and see what you're doing.
Speaker A:Probably drop your Instagram also so folks can follow and everything.
Speaker A:But thank you, Anthony.
Speaker A:This is a great conversation.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Love this conversation.
Speaker A:And thanks, y' all, for tuning in till the next episode of the podcast Odejuma.
